Is the US officially a fascist country yet?

Homepage Forums Politics Is the US officially a fascist country yet?

This topic contains 195 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  Unseen 2 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #35998

    Davis
    Moderator

    Indeed Robert. Societies that take care of people, foster independence through assistance until it is not necessary, ensure everyone has the basic necessities of life and even take care of a small fraction of people who just won’t take care of themselves no matter what…hugely benefit from it. In the EU the more generous and comprehensive social services are…the more functional their society is, the lower the level of violence is on the street and usually there is a much much higher level of education and health. And yet, believe it or not, they all have super strong healthy economies all with much smaller populations and resources of larger countries. They choose to get over the “I ain’t helping nobody who should just help themselves” stupidity and enjoy the benefits from it.

    Sure they pay higher taxes but they also don’t have to spend a large amount of money on health insurance, theft insurance, worry about ghettos, homeless people all over the streets down town, living in a gated community or what would happen to them if they hit a dose of extreme bad luck (which can happen). Despite paying a considerable portion of taxes I don’t get worked up just because the tiniest little percentage goes to a tiny number of free loaders or fuck-ups who beat the system. It is the tiniest near insignificant price to pay for living in a functional country where I don’t see or deal with high levels of crime, poverty, misery and people who cannot afford insulin. I would also feel sick to my stomach paying less taxes knowing a significant portion of people are pointlessly suffering in abject poverty when it is easily avoided.

    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  Davis.
    #36000

    Ivy
    Participant

    Will somebody please help me get the hell out of this country! ūüėā I have been saying it for years but I really mean it this time! Everything I thought was going to happen pretty much has. Except instead of causing a war with Kim Jong-un, he got into bed with him LOL ūüėā That was literally the only exception

    #36001

    Davis
    Moderator

    If I were stuck in America then, of course only if possible, I would relocate somewhere in New England, in a liberal state such as Vermont where they have a progressive environment, low crime, better social programs or in Massachusetts where they have one of the strongest medicare systems and a far more generous attitude towards people who have problems and need assistance. Hawaii is also a nice option per the remote distance from the insanity of Washington DC, nice weather and highly liberal politics. Also…participate in helping to reform US politics. Worrying solves nothing. If you are too stressed out…then you can always just not engage and avoid news and political discussions.

    Moving to Canada is expensive and it uses a point system which you may not qualify for (it is fairly demanding on your skill set, languages, cash in the bank, education background etc). It is mostly the same for other western countries. Also if you move there you wouldn’t qualify for social services for the first few months you lived there and now is pretty much the worst possible time to find a job in another country.

    #36002

    @ivyExcept instead of causing a war with Kim Jong-un, he got into bed with him...

    But Kimmie wrote Donnie some beautiful letters and Donnie fell in love with him. At least that is what he admitted happened. Maybe Kimmie told him what a bigly boy he was over a cup of covfefe? Anyways, it was all so tweet.

    #36003

    PopeBeanie
    Moderator

    If you are too stressed out…then you can always just not engage and avoid news and political discussions.

    Umm, speaking for myself, the only thing that would make that possible would be with the aid of some kind of psychotropic agent.

    YMMV

    But your suggestions for geographic relocation sound well informed!

    @asianne (Ivy), I think the next month will be interesting. The election last week in Georgia made for a very encouraging outcome in the senate. Biden/Harris will undo some of the Trump Era’s damage. Our status around the world has already improved. Court suits and other actions against bad actors are rolling out, e.g. from Dominion Voting Systems, Amazon AWS vs Parler, social networks are cracking down on the spread of misinformation. I can’t predict their success, but at least the near future should prove to be pretty educational wrt America’s response, no longer (completely) hijacked by a psychopath.

    #36007

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Fellow Unbelievers (Assuming You Are,)

    When it comes to medicine, all I’m seeing here is a bunch of Straw-Manning, Snark, Smarm, Name-Calling, False Causation, Wishful Thinking, Appeal to Emotion, and “No-True-Socialized-Medicine”-ing.

    Davis, if you want to know what “sociopathy” is, that is breaking a person’s leg, giving them a crutch, then claiming that you’re helping the person.¬† That is precisely what government has done with anything to do with medicine, drugs, or health.

     

    PopeBeanie, no dice on the psychotropics, at least not on their purity or quality.¬† Thanks to both the old Alcohol Prohibition and the U.S. “War On (Some) Drugs” and their implementation worldwide, psychotropics are underground and controlled by organized crime gangs, their quality and purity are iffy at best and overdoseing deadly at worst, conflicts between gangs over sales turf are settled not by Judge Wapner, but with gun battles in the streets (a health hazard by themselves,) and pharmaceutical companies are not free to research ways to kill pain without killing people.¬† Even where medicinal marijuana is starting to open up, it’s still not fast enough and government is still in the way of it is flourishing.

    Jake, you’ve (quite justifiably) railed against eugenics.¬† Are you aware that this bit of pseudoscience was entirely propped up and implemented by government getting into the realm of health, through government Eugenics Boards and Judges deciding who got sterilized or institutionalized?

    Robert, are you aware that before what little trace of free-markets we humans have tried, men practiced economics under government-monopolized Mercantilists and before that were serfs of Feudal lords.¬† And during those times, there would be sometimes 14 Oliver Twists born and stillborn before one lived to be story fodder?¬† Fre-markets gave people a¬† chance¬† at survival they didn’t otherwise have before, gradually lifted man out of poverty wherever and whenever allowed, and¬† automation and AI will mean no more kids worldwide will have to be Oliver Twist.

    And  this same government that that everyone is relying on for health care also gave us the water service in Flint, Michigan and elsewhere, provided price supports and subsidies to tobacco, wheat, grain, and sugar, and back in the Nineties recommended 6-11 servings of carbohydrates in the U.S. Department of Agriculture Food Pyramid.

    If you don’t believe in the Supernatural God in the 23rd Psalm, don’t believe in an Earthly government entity claiming the same mantle.

     

    #36011

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Ivy,

    There are dribs and drabs of both political and economic freedom here and there, but there is no spare or “New and Improved” United States of America to run to any more.¬† Basically, it is “Space or Bust” or “Don’t go to bed angry; stay up and fight.”

    My recommendation for least of the evils is New Hampshire, the State with the motto “Live Free Or Die.”

    No income tax, no sales tax, minimal tax on capital gains, balanced budgets, though balanced against high real estate costs and high property taxes.  (Your call on the trade-off)

    Low crime due to prosperity and few gun laws.   One of the least religious and most Secular States, passed same-sex marriage before most States, no Nanny State helmet or seat-belt laws (though these are still  better practices.)

    And beautiful country in the mountains and valleys (though the poor stone “Old Man of the Mountain” lost his nose back in 2012.)

    I’ve visited and loved it and would love to make it a home one of these days.¬† I would want to go there by boat to avoid the Babylons of D.C., New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, and Boston.¬† “Dream a little dream…”

    #36013

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Encogitationer,

    Whatever is rubber is also glue, bounces off of us and sticks to you. Lets see if you can make a sound argument against socialized medicine in the USA. You pointed out bad things about government. I gave you some additional ammunition and indicated it is not relevant to the issue at hand. There are horrible things about free markets and corporations as well. Any place there is a concentration of power we see abuse. It is how we humans operate. However, pointing out the horrors of free markets and of governments is great fun but it does not address the issue we are contemplating.

    I don’t think anybody can gainsay the appalling state of affairs in the good ole USA as it relates to health care. What we have now sucks. So many uninsured. Such high premiums. Such shameless price gouging by pharmaceuticals and interference from insurers in the practice of medicine. Meanwhile we have testimonials from members that socialized medicine is working.
    If it is working for other nations why can’t we implement it to good effect?

    #36014

    Davis
    Moderator

    If anything because of America’s staggering size and ability to negotiate reasonable prices…centralised medicine would be insanely efficient in America. If you implemented it…over time you could probably do it better than the rest of the world who has done it for over 50 years now. Canada does it extremely well (yes, I know they don’t offer the same services as in the US and have waiting lists in some cases but they could not even avoid that in a private sector because their population is smaller and Americans with most insurers face waiting lists anyways too). Canada is about the same population as California so if a smaller economy and population can…why the fuck can’t America do it even bettter? I mean, zheesh, LUXEMBOURG has a better state of affairs with centralised medicine than America and their population is smaller than Vermont. Even the most rabid conservative far-right lunatics in Canada wouldn’t question the value of centralised health. They may wish to have parallel systems like they have in Spain (where you can get supplementary insurance to have more comfortable hospitals or more auxiliary services) but the centralised part of it is virtually unquestioned in Canada, The EU, Switzerland, Iceland, Norway, Australia, NZ, Japan, Singapore, South Korea etc. To them…giving up a system that is so obviously efficient, humane and useful would be like privatising traffic lights or in a less ridiculous sense making all elementary schools private where you have to pay into it with a hefty fee (and your students could be kicked out for the flimsiest of excuses) the quality is super patchy and millions of kids don’t end up getting educated. What is it still the middle ages?

    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  Davis.
    #36016

    _Robert_
    Participant

    https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#item-start

    US costs are pathetic…

    Provide our citizenry universal healthcare, make it a profit-free zone, you know, like the military…(If one still wants to buy private insurance, fine, do it.) Then maybe the next generation will inherit some money to improve their station.

    #36023

    Unseen
    Participant

    https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#item-start US costs are pathetic… Provide our citizenry universal healthcare, make it a profit-free zone, you know, like the military…(If one still wants to buy private insurance, fine, do it.) Then maybe the next generation will inherit some money to improve their station.

    The military “profit free”? I hope you were speaking ironically.

    #36024

    _Robert_
    Participant

    https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#item-start US costs are pathetic… Provide our citizenry universal healthcare, make it a profit-free zone, you know, like the military…(If one still wants to buy private insurance, fine, do it.) Then maybe the next generation will inherit some money to improve their station.

    The military ‚Äúprofit free‚ÄĚ? I hope you were speaking ironically.

    No I was not. We don’t normally hire for profit commercial firms to fight wars. Material sourcing is from the commercial sector as it would be with healthcare. We essentially have a socialized¬† military (Blackwater was an unfortunate exception) and conservatives are fine with that.

    #36025

    Unseen
    Participant

    No I was not. We don’t normally hire for profit commercial firms to fight wars. Material sourcing is from the commercial sector as it would be with healthcare. We essentially have a socialized  military (Blackwater was an unfortunate exception) and conservatives are fine with that.

    I was thinking of corporations falling all over themselves to land military contracts. Of course, we have all-volunteer cannon fodder. Wouldn’t it be great if our contractors were all volunteer as well? One reason a relatively minor economy like Russia seems to be able to produce serviceable weapon systems is that they don’t have to pay through the nose the way we (you and me) do.

    #36029

    Ivy
    Participant

    Is it just me? Or is this whole impeachment thing too little too late… Just like their lousy $600 stimulus check. The damage has already been done. Donald impeachment 2.0 should have been done right the first time. Will there ever be any real accountability for ALL of the people who were complicit to his crimes? Sadly probably not.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 4 weeks ago by  Ivy.
    #36031

    Kristina
    Participant

    Is it just me? Or is this whole impeachment thing too little too late… Just like their lousy $600 stimulus check. The damage has already been done.

    I imagine they are hoping they can bar him from running for office again, at a minimum.

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