Sunday School

[Strega]

You have to frame a solution to the specific characteristics of the society you are addressing. The USA is an extreme capitalist society, running on the dollar as it’s lifeblood.   Consequently, we need to have a profit element built in to the solution.  Mandating liability insurance along with any license requirement might just work.

[Davis]

I cannot confirm all of this information because regulations vary from province to province and state to state. But the idea is correct, that it is one of President Suck-face’s more deplorable actions: diverting attention away from weapons of murder to video games. He’s just playing from the new Republic playbook…dirty tactics and unashamed lies to get the policy you want passed at any cost.

[_Robert_]

In general only a few states allow a felon to own a gun or ammo. So there is a “light” background check. For handguns some states have a three day waiting period from when you purchase to when you receive the gun.  You can even order ammo online and have it shipped.

[_Robert_]

Guns are too easy to get now, relatively speaking.

Back in the 60s/70s when there was 200 million guns instead of 35o million around we didn’t have this high frequency of mass shootings. In fact a lot of high schoolers had gun racks in their pickup trucks-in the parking lot at school. Semi-auto rifles and pistols with up to 30 round magazines were pretty common…we had an M1 carbine under the bed in my house. No difference between that and an AR-15 or an AK-47.

Something else has changed. It’s a perfect storm for some males; social isolation except for internet extreme forums, glorification of violence as a solution in movies, games, and music and also the media hype we have each time. Questionable parenting, often by a single over-worked guardian. Huge stigma against mental illness and almost no help for those in need. A dim future of feeling unneeded and unwanted, especially now that women are reaching a high level independence. These killers have nothing to lose.

I do think measures like Strega suggests would help over time. We do have too many guns. I think guns should be licensed and the owner should take a course and pass a test. Canadians own guns at a lesser rate, but you can get a gun in Canada if you meet the requirements. I am not sure laws would do much in the short term. A mentally ill person who is planning to murder many people and knows they will probably die is not gonna worry about a possession law.

We have become extreme. Extreme on the left and on the right. The US populace has lost it’s balance and common sense. Just look at who we elected. A healthy person could have a thousand guns and still not shoot anybody.

 

[_Robert_]

Another interesting thing about American gun culture…the government sells military surplus weapons to the public and encourages marksmanship and gun safety. The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) has been around for decades. The arsenal of democracy is a long standing value. The Swiss military would actually let soldiers take their guns home with them.

[Reg the Fronkey Farmer]

I think that is a reasonable assessment of how things are. Do you reckon this guy has broken the law by walking into a Walmart with loaded weapons? I will agree he was foolhardy, if not stupid or at the very least insensitive in doing so given recent events. But if he has not broken the law then he will sue for having his constitutional rights infringed upon by the State. He also makes a point about how liberal the gun laws are if it is demonstrated that he acted within the letter of the law.

[Davis]

It really depends on the state law. Which I know nothing about in the US let alone Missouri. In Spain he’d be arrested for terrorism and not a soul would have the slightest sympathy for the stupid arrogant idiot. I know that in other countries knowingly causing a panic (when it can easily be avoided) is a crime. He was also wearing body armour and specifically chose a Walmart for the sole purpose of testing his rights. If a person in a clown costume carrying a rifle in a pizza box shot up an office block anyone aware of this must take that into account over the next days/weeks. If you dress up the next week in a clown costume and try to deliver a pizza to another office block and create an inevitable panic you are responsible for the injuries and costs (and even possible deaths) associated with that panic. I don’t know how this applies to Missouri but the prosecutors seemsee think this is a panic crime…not a guns rights issue

• This reply was modified 6 years, 8 months ago by Davis.

[Belle Rose]

They charged him with “domestic terrorism.” What he did does not fall under the definition of domestic terrorism. I hope he sues the living shit out of them and proves the point that people have been trying to make for decades now. He was fully within his rights. It doesn’t matter what happened earlier that week. He didn’t break the law. I think what he did was brilliant.

[Belle Rose]

Causing “panic” is not domestic terrorism. It would maybe be disturbing the peace but even then….he was just strolling through Walmart executing his right to bear arms. Isn’t that the right the NRA so vehemently protects?

[Reg the Fronkey Farmer]

While I suspect his motivation was to ensure his right to bear arms I think he has inadvertently shown the law has an absurdity to it because Missouri calls itself “gun-friendly”.

He has not broken the law. If he did exactly the same thing a month ago, nothing would have happened. If he waited for four months I suspect nothing would have happened. Charging him with “domestic terrorism” is just virtue signalling.  If members of the public are “triggered” by this incident then they should look to having the law changed.

If he is prosecuted for what the NRA and its membership claim is his right then they will have to support him. I also suspect he will become a poster boy for many who will now go around Missouri openly carrying their weapons in a show of solitary with him.

By actually exercising his right to bear arms in such a manner he could accidentally become the tipping-point where the public say they now want the laws toughened up. Will the NRA be forced to support a domestic terrorist in order to defend the right to bear arms?

[Belle Rose]

Will the NRA be forced to support a domestic terrorist in order to defend the right to bear arms?

Fucking exactly!  I’m getting out my popcorn I don’t know about you… LOL

[Belle Rose]

Don’t get me wrong, I understand to a point the NRA point of view. For a while I was seriously considering getting my license to carry for protection… But I quickly realized (And with the advice of some experts on the subject), that to be a responsible gun owner I needed far more professional training than I could afford to make it safe. And because I would have to keep it locked away it would really do me no good if I needed it right away…It’s sad that I live in this country where in order to feel safe and we have to feel like owning a gun is our best option. I still think about the possibility of getting one in case somebody does break and enter my house with intent to kill… You can’t exactly bring a knife to a gun fight

[Davis]

I don’t give a toss that he had a gun with him, because if a state wants to have a law where people can walk around with weapons of murder on them and the inevitable accidents and rampages that happen, that is their business. Whatever. But what he did was extremely reckless and potentially lethal. Stampedes happen all the time. He also very easily could have been shot by the police (if he were black I doubt he would have lasted a couple minutes before being shot).

In all countries I’ve ever lived in, this guy would be in prison without bail and he’d be charged with causing a panic or a similar law. Fully well knowing what he was doing while everyone told him it was a stupid dangerous idea. And I don’t know a single Canadian, Spaniard, Belgian or German who would have the slightest ounce of sympathy for this fuck-up who decided to test a constitutional law in a method that was very unnecessary with utterly despicable and vicious timing, mirroring the details of a recent national traumatic event when he had perhaps 10,000 different opportunities in different places, under different methods and even a couple days later to test his theory without bringing the police into it, wasting their time, shutting down a business for several hours, diverting first responders attention, possibly causing a stampede which usually involves injuries and even death. He’s an arrogant scum bucket and I’d feel the same if some LGTB+ person used a recent tragedy as an excuse to stage a test against gay discrimination laws, especially if it mirrored a mass shooting, brought in the police, a public panic and put his life and other lives in danger (when there are virtually unlimited alternatives). That’s what a self-centered attention seeking arrogant douchey stpuid punk does.

[_Robert_]

It’s sad that I live in this country where in order to feel safe and we have to feel like owning a gun is our best option.

Well said and so very true. But why is it like that?

[Reg the Fronkey Farmer]

I agree completely that it was an idiotic thing for him to do. But he still did nothing illegal. It was in poor taste, to say the least and I would have little sympathy for him if another citizen shot him. For the sake of argument lets say he does not die in the shooing. But then we would have a scenario where the shooter, who had the right to bear arms, shot another man who also had the right to bear arms and they could both defend their reasons for bearing those arms in public in the first place because they felt equally threatened from the recent events in El Paso.

Both parties could argue they had not broken the law. One would be hailed a hero and the other a domestic terrorist even though both of them were legally carrying weapons in a mall. One claims he was afraid for his life when he saw the first guy in the store with his open carry weapons who in turn claims he was afraid because of recent  event.

Yes, the guy is an insensitive idiot and did an absurd thing but it shows how potentially absurd the situation is when it comes to guns laws. The NRA would have to support both of them.

To paraphrase Jon Stewart’s line about religion giving people hope in a world torn apart by religion:

Guns, helping to protect people in a world torn apart by gun crime.

[Author]

Posts