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Sunday School June 22nd 2025
This topic contains 74 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by 
Unseen 4 months, 2 weeks ago.
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June 25, 2025 at 5:02 am #57876
Some serious FAFO going on in Trump’s base.
Gawd I hated forcing myself to listen to that very long list of anecdotes copy/pasted from social media as if they’re meaningful, statistically. I generally skim youtube comments to get a feel for the room, where the idiocy in comments can be horribly tribal and angsty, but I won’t ever dredge them up for conversation or as fodder to energize an opposing community to come together, as if they might neutralize each other’s angst, or (worse) double the angst, or whatever her purpose or message was.
Some comedians (and even a few podcasters and reactors) seem to be learning how to counter idiot/angsty commenters with intelligent humor, instead. (So many downright hateful comments, now! They seem pathological, to me.)
June 25, 2025 at 5:31 am #57877The U.S. should declare “A plague on both your houses” and stay out of it.
I’d be really happy if Iranians can defeat their theocracy, which would (imo) likely defeat major support for hamas, hezbollah, and houthis in the long run. And it would keep nuclear bombs out of the hands of terrorist, apocalyptic servants of their purported, vengeful Allah.
As for genocide, no, I don’t think it’s intentional, but it still seems (to me) a lot like a war crime. I don’t want to just write off Palestinians or Palestine, but if Hamas is the disease, how can the disease be isolated from spreading beyond Palestine? Any real solution seems to require some kind of cold reckoning, with innocents dying.
I know it sounds horrible, but what would be your alternative solution? Maybe this could have been addressed successfully decades earlier, and not being successful at that decades ago should have been seen as inevitably leading to full scale failure? Don’t you have to admit, that Iran also had a lot to do with starting and maintaining fires that could not be extinguished humanely? (All in the name of Allah!)
June 25, 2025 at 3:35 pm #57878Several organizations and bodies have issued statements or reports characterizing Israel’s war against Hamas in Gaza as a genocide or a war crime. It is important to note the specific legal terms they use, as there are distinctions in international law.
Declarations of Genocide or Acts of Genocide
International Court of Justice (ICJ): In a case brought by South Africa, the ICJ ruled in January 2024 that the Palestinians in Gaza are a protected group under the Genocide Convention and that there is a “plausible risk of genocide.” The court issued binding provisional measures ordering Israel to take all measures within its power to prevent genocidal acts and to ensure the provision of humanitarian aid. The ICJ’s rulings are ongoing and they have issued further orders since the initial one.
United Nations Special Rapporteur on the occupied Palestinian territories: Francesca Albanese, the UN Special Rapporteur, published a report titled “Anatomy of a Genocide” in March 2024, in which she concluded that there are reasonable grounds to believe that Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza.
Amnesty International: In a report published in December 2024, Amnesty International concluded that there is “sufficient evidence to believe that Israel’s conduct in Gaza following 7 October 2023 amounts to genocide.” They identified three of the five acts of genocide under the Genocide Convention: killing members of a group, causing serious bodily or mental harm, and deliberately inflicting conditions of life aimed at destroying the group in whole or in part.
Human Rights Watch: Human Rights Watch has documented what it calls “atrocity crimes, acts of genocide, and mounting evidence of genocidal intent.” In a December 2024 report, they specifically stated that Israel is “intentionally depriving Palestinian civilians in Gaza of adequate access to water… thus committing the crime against humanity of extermination and acts of genocide.” They also concluded that Israeli authorities have intentionally created conditions of life calculated to bring about the physical destruction of Palestinians in Gaza.
UN Special Committee to Investigate Israeli Practices: In a report from November 2024, this UN Special Committee stated that Israel’s warfare in Gaza is “consistent with the characteristics of genocide.”
Declarations of War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity
Many organizations have also accused both Israeli forces and Hamas of committing war crimes and other violations of international humanitarian law.
International Criminal Court (ICC): The ICC’s prosecutor has sought arrest warrants for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and former Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, as well as Hamas leaders, for alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity. The charges against the Israeli leaders include starvation as a method of warfare, murder, and persecution.
United Nations: A UN Commission of Inquiry found in June 2024 that both Israeli authorities and Palestinian armed groups were responsible for war crimes. The commission found that Israeli authorities were responsible for the war crimes of starvation as a method of warfare, murder, and intentionally directing attacks against civilians. They also found that Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups were responsible for war crimes committed in Israel, including intentionally directing attacks against civilians and taking hostages.
Human Rights Watch: Human Rights Watch has extensively documented alleged war crimes by both sides. They have stated that Hamas’s apparent targeting of civilians, indiscriminate attacks, and hostage-taking amount to war crimes. They have also accused the Israeli military of using explosive weapons in densely populated areas and attacking civilian infrastructure, which raises concerns about violations of the principles of distinction and proportionality under international humanitarian law.
Amnesty International: Amnesty International has conducted in-depth investigations and found that Israel has violated international humanitarian law, including by failing to take precautions to spare civilians and carrying out indiscriminate attacks. They have also documented the use of starvation as a method of warfare and collective punishment.
It is important to remember that these are assessments and legal findings by various organizations and bodies based on their investigations and interpretations of international law. The International Court of Justice and the International Criminal Court are judicial bodies, and their rulings and actions carry significant weight in the international legal system.
(Source: Gemini AI query)
June 25, 2025 at 4:08 pm #57879I am not going to waste my time debunking all of the BS that Unseen continues to forward. The sources are garbage in and garbage out. Yes lefties have corrupted institutions to the point of worthlessness and exhibit blatant racism. Congratulations on being pawns for the Islamists. You are as intelligent as sun baked rocks. Useful idiots. More apt term never coined.
As i have explained the fringe nazi remnants do not currently pose the risk that the lefties do. Nazis are utterly discredited among all but the most troglodytic. Concomitantly lefty/islamism literally threatens western civilization and obviously Jews everywhere and in particular the state of Israel continues to advance. And it has the imprimatur of academia, mainstream media to some degree and faux intellectuals.
Israel needs to produce for netflix et al. a short and long version debunking all of the lies, giving the history, and attacking the infrastructure of progressivism. Additionally debates pairing the foremost Jew hating lefties from Columbia, Harvard in those middles eastern joke departments along with any other apologists who are proselytyizing into the secular religion of Jew hatred against defenders of Israel. No audience.
I finally found out why Israel has not fought back in the war of ideas that the lefty’s/Islamists are winning. It is a cultural thing. “We don’t have to justify ourselves to anyone.” It is time to breach that understandable but now outdated cultural norm.
Here is Unseen’s hero who was not long ago reinstated/reelected whatever that joke of an institution does.
“Francesca Albanese, appointed in May 2022 as the United Nations Special Rapporteur on the occupied Palestinian territories, has long coopted antisemitic tropes and legitimized support of terrorism in her critiques of Israel, using her platform to spread intense anti-Israel rhetoric. She is the first Special Rapporteur to be condemned by both Germany and France for antisemitism, and has been condemned by the U.S. Special Envoy to Combat Antisemitism Deborah Lipstadt, U.S. Ambassador to the UN Linda Thomas-Greenfield, and U.S. Ambassador to the UN Human Rights Council, Michèle Taylor.
UN Human Rights Council Special Procedures Mandate-holders or Special Rapporteurs, are independent experts appointed by the UN Human Rights Council, tasked with investigating human rights in an area or topic. Special Rapporteurs are bound by their Code of Conduct to, “…ensure that their personal political opinions are without prejudice to the execution of their mission, and base their conclusions and recommendations on objective assessments of human rights situations.” Special Rapporteurs must also, “In implementing their mandate, therefore, show restraint, moderation and discretion so as not to undermine the recognition of the independent nature of their mandate or the environment necessary to properly discharge the said mandate.” From the start Francesca Albanese’s bias and lack of impartiality towards Israel has been obvious. She has a long record of promoting antisemitic tropes and using hateful language to attack the Jewish State of Israel, which includes comparing Israel to the Nazis, conspiracies about Jewish power, denying and diminishing the Oct 7th massacre, and supporting and advocating violence against the Jewish state.
Below are select antisemitic and/or inflammatory statements from Albanese:
Holocaust Distortion, Trivialization and Comparisons to Nazis
On October 14, 2024, Albanese likened the systematic extermination of Jews under the Nazi’s “pure race” policy to Israel’s war on Hamas in Gaza. Albanese compares the Jewish State’s war against Hamas, to the “Third Reich” who perpetrated the Holocaust, tweeting: “Our collective obliviousness to what led, 100 years ago, to the Third Reich’s expansionism and the genocide of people not in conformity with the “pure race” is asinine. And it is leading to the commission of yet another genocide…”
In August 2024, in a tweet addressed to the German government, Albanese likened Germany’s actions and German civilian’s complacency during the Holocaust under the Third Reich, to Germany’s support of Israel claiming, “This is 2024 and while you could stay quite [sic] and silent in the corner of history, you are doing all you can to make it wrong, once again.”
In August 2024, Albanese likened Israel’s war on the Gaza strip to the Holocaust, calling it a “concentration camp of the 21st century.”
In July 2024, Albanese trivialized the Holocaust, reposting an image comparing Prime Minister of Israel Benjamin Netanyahu to Adolf Hitler, with the comment: “This is precisely what I was thinking today.”
In December 2023, Albanese compared the Israel’s war in Gaza to the Holocaust saying: “Fellow Europeans, Italians, Germans: after the Holocaust, we should instinctively know that Genocide starts with dehumanizing the Other. If Israel’s current attack agst [sic] Palestinians doesnt [sic] prompt our strong reaction, the darkest page of our recent history has taught us nothing.”
Conspiracies about Jewish power
October 2024, Albanese retweeted with the caption “A must-read for the ages…” a tweet from Chris Hedges that read: “I fear, given that the Israel lobby has bought and paid for Congress and the two ruling parties, as well as cowed the media and universities, the rivers of blood will continue to swell. There is money to be made in war. A lot of it. And the influence of the war industry, buttressed by hundreds of millions of dollars spent on political campaigns by the Zionists, will be a formidable barrier to peace, not to mention sanity.”
Demonization and Delegitimization of Israel
In August 2024, Albanese labeled the targeted Israeli assassinations of terrorist leaders, Hamas chief Ismail Haniyeh and Hezbollah commander Fouad Shukr, as “murders” and “acts of aggression.”
In July 2024, Albanese compared Israel to the terrorist rule of the Taliban in Afghanistan, after the Taliban banned the UN Special Rapporteur for Afghanistan from entering the country, stating: “The Taliban displays the same disdain toward the UN and its values as Israel’s Apartheid.” In Taliban ruled Afghanistan, women are banned from speaking or showing their faces in public.
In June 2024, Albanese claimed “genocidal intent” in the Israeli rescue efforts to free four hostages kidnapped from Israel into Gaza by Hamas terrorists.
July 2024, Albanese tweeted “Time to #UNseatIsrael from the UN.”
Denying or Diminishing the Oct. 7th Massacre
In March 2024, Albanese diminished the reality and suffering of Israeli women on International Women’s Day without reference to those who were murdered, dehumanized, kidnapped and raped by Hamas: “My thoughts also go to the Israeli women, especially the soldiers: what have you done, what have you become. Dears, when you realise it, you will be haunted forever.”
In February 2024, in response to French President Emmanuel Macron referring to the October 7 massacre as “the largest antisemitic massacre of our century,” Albanese tweeted: “The greatest antisemitic massacre of our century? No, @EmmanuelMacron. The victims of 7/10 were not killed because of their Judaism but in response to Israel’s oppression.” For this statement, the governments of France and Germany condemned Albanese for her antisemitism, making it the first time in UN history that both France and Germany condemn a UN rapporteur for antisemitism.
France responding: “The October 7 massacre is the largest anti-Semitic massacre of the 21st century. To deny it is wrong. To seem to justify it, by bringing in the name of the United Nations, is a shame.” Adding that, “These remarks are all the more scandalous given that the fight against anti-Semitism and all forms of racism are at the heart of the founding of the UN.”
Germany also replied to Albanese’s comments, stating: “To justify the horrific terror attacks of 7/10 & deny their antisemitic nature is appalling. Making such statements in a UN capacity is a disgrace and goes against everything the United Nations stand for.”
During a webinar, while discussing the October 7 massacre, Albanese said: “There might have been people carrying out the attack who might have been motivated by hatred. But the attack itself, and this is the thing, there is something like intent at the level of the attack, and all the statements that were collected at the level of command have not pointed to aggression against the Jews. There is another point that in Arabic, Palestinians refer to the Israelis as Yahudis and the Israelis refer to the Palestinians like the Arabs. This is something that shouldn’t escape a western audience. It is a way to refer interchangeably to the Israelis.”
In October 2023, following the brutal massacre perpetrated by Hamas, Albanese called into question Hamas’ crimes “including beheadings/rape.”
On October 7 2023, the day that Hamas targeted Israel’s civilian populations massacring of over 1,200 people and kidnapping 250, Albanese’s reaction was to minimize Hamas’ atrocities stating that, “Today’s violence must be put in context.”
Justification of Violence
In a November 2022 response to a Hamas-organized conference in Gaza, Albanese said “you have the right to resist this occupation.”
In June 2022, Albanese stated that “The Palestinians have no other room for dissent than violence,” justifying violence against Israel.
Upon the start of her term as Special Rapporteur in May 2022, Albanese began to justify terrorist violence stating: “The Palestinian violence that we see is inevitable because for 55 years, almost three generations, the right to exist of a people has been denied.”
Albanese’s antisemitism prior to her UN appointment
In 2014, in a post since hidden from her Facebook page, Albanese employs antisemitic tropes in an open letter to the BBC stating that: “The Israeli lobby is clearly inside your veins and system,” claiming of an “orwellian [sic] nightmare caused once again by Israel’s greed.”
In 2014, Albanese expressed excitement on Facebook that Hamas was removed from the list of terror organizations by the EU General Court: “Two good news one after another from the radio while I was taking a nap. Normalization in the relations usa cuba [sic] and removal of hamas [sic] from the list of terror organizations. Was i [sic] dreaming???” The EU’s decision to declassify Hamas as a terrorist organization was overturned by the European Court of Justice (EJC) in 2017.
“Francesca Albanese, appointed in May 2022 as the United Nations Special Rapporteur on the occupied Palestinian territories, has long coopted antisemitic tropes and legitimized support of terrorism in her critiques of Israel, using her platform to spread intense anti-Israel rhetoric. She is the first Special Rapporteur to be condemned by both Germany and France for antisemitism, and has been condemned by the U.S. Special Envoy to Combat Antisemitism Deborah Lipstadt, U.S. Ambassador to the UN Linda Thomas-Greenfield, and U.S. Ambassador to the UN Human Rights Council, Michèle Taylor.
UN Human Rights Council Special Procedures Mandate-holders or Special Rapporteurs, are independent experts appointed by the UN Human Rights Council, tasked with investigating human rights in an area or topic. Special Rapporteurs are bound by their Code of Conduct to, “…ensure that their personal political opinions are without prejudice to the execution of their mission, and base their conclusions and recommendations on objective assessments of human rights situations.” Special Rapporteurs must also, “In implementing their mandate, therefore, show restraint, moderation and discretion so as not to undermine the recognition of the independent nature of their mandate or the environment necessary to properly discharge the said mandate.” From the start Francesca Albanese’s bias and lack of impartiality towards Israel has been obvious. She has a long record of promoting antisemitic tropes and using hateful language to attack the Jewish State of Israel, which includes comparing Israel to the Nazis, conspiracies about Jewish power, denying and diminishing the Oct 7th massacre, and supporting and advocating violence against the Jewish state.
Below are select antisemitic and/or inflammatory statements from Albanese:
Holocaust Distortion, Trivialization and Comparisons to Nazis
On October 14, 2024, Albanese likened the systematic extermination of Jews under the Nazi’s “pure race” policy to Israel’s war on Hamas in Gaza. Albanese compares the Jewish State’s war against Hamas, to the “Third Reich” who perpetrated the Holocaust, tweeting: “Our collective obliviousness to what led, 100 years ago, to the Third Reich’s expansionism and the genocide of people not in conformity with the “pure race” is asinine. And it is leading to the commission of yet another genocide…”
In August 2024, in a tweet addressed to the German government, Albanese likened Germany’s actions and German civilian’s complacency during the Holocaust under the Third Reich, to Germany’s support of Israel claiming, “This is 2024 and while you could stay quite [sic] and silent in the corner of history, you are doing all you can to make it wrong, once again.”
In August 2024, Albanese likened Israel’s war on the Gaza strip to the Holocaust, calling it a “concentration camp of the 21st century.”
In July 2024, Albanese trivialized the Holocaust, reposting an image comparing Prime Minister of Israel Benjamin Netanyahu to Adolf Hitler, with the comment: “This is precisely what I was thinking today.”
In December 2023, Albanese compared the Israel’s war in Gaza to the Holocaust saying: “Fellow Europeans, Italians, Germans: after the Holocaust, we should instinctively know that Genocide starts with dehumanizing the Other. If Israel’s current attack agst [sic] Palestinians doesnt [sic] prompt our strong reaction, the darkest page of our recent history has taught us nothing.”
Conspiracies about Jewish power
October 2024, Albanese retweeted with the caption “A must-read for the ages…” a tweet from Chris Hedges that read: “I fear, given that the Israel lobby has bought and paid for Congress and the two ruling parties, as well as cowed the media and universities, the rivers of blood will continue to swell. There is money to be made in war. A lot of it. And the influence of the war industry, buttressed by hundreds of millions of dollars spent on political campaigns by the Zionists, will be a formidable barrier to peace, not to mention sanity.”
Demonization and Delegitimization of Israel
In August 2024, Albanese labeled the targeted Israeli assassinations of terrorist leaders, Hamas chief Ismail Haniyeh and Hezbollah commander Fouad Shukr, as “murders” and “acts of aggression.”
In July 2024, Albanese compared Israel to the terrorist rule of the Taliban in Afghanistan, after the Taliban banned the UN Special Rapporteur for Afghanistan from entering the country, stating: “The Taliban displays the same disdain toward the UN and its values as Israel’s Apartheid.” In Taliban ruled Afghanistan, women are banned from speaking or showing their faces in public.
In June 2024, Albanese claimed “genocidal intent” in the Israeli rescue efforts to free four hostages kidnapped from Israel into Gaza by Hamas terrorists.
July 2024, Albanese tweeted “Time to #UNseatIsrael from the UN.”
Denying or Diminishing the Oct. 7th Massacre
In March 2024, Albanese diminished the reality and suffering of Israeli women on International Women’s Day without reference to those who were murdered, dehumanized, kidnapped and raped by Hamas: “My thoughts also go to the Israeli women, especially the soldiers: what have you done, what have you become. Dears, when you realise it, you will be haunted forever.”
In February 2024, in response to French President Emmanuel Macron referring to the October 7 massacre as “the largest antisemitic massacre of our century,” Albanese tweeted: “The greatest antisemitic massacre of our century? No, @EmmanuelMacron. The victims of 7/10 were not killed because of their Judaism but in response to Israel’s oppression.” For this statement, the governments of France and Germany condemned Albanese for her antisemitism, making it the first time in UN history that both France and Germany condemn a UN rapporteur for antisemitism.
France responding: “The October 7 massacre is the largest anti-Semitic massacre of the 21st century. To deny it is wrong. To seem to justify it, by bringing in the name of the United Nations, is a shame.” Adding that, “These remarks are all the more scandalous given that the fight against anti-Semitism and all forms of racism are at the heart of the founding of the UN.”
Germany also replied to Albanese’s comments, stating: “To justify the horrific terror attacks of 7/10 & deny their antisemitic nature is appalling. Making such statements in a UN capacity is a disgrace and goes against everything the United Nations stand for.”
During a webinar, while discussing the October 7 massacre, Albanese said: “There might have been people carrying out the attack who might have been motivated by hatred. But the attack itself, and this is the thing, there is something like intent at the level of the attack, and all the statements that were collected at the level of command have not pointed to aggression against the Jews. There is another point that in Arabic, Palestinians refer to the Israelis as Yahudis and the Israelis refer to the Palestinians like the Arabs. This is something that shouldn’t escape a western audience. It is a way to refer interchangeably to the Israelis.”
In October 2023, following the brutal massacre perpetrated by Hamas, Albanese called into question Hamas’ crimes “including beheadings/rape.”
On October 7 2023, the day that Hamas targeted Israel’s civilian populations massacring of over 1,200 people and kidnapping 250, Albanese’s reaction was to minimize Hamas’ atrocities stating that, “Today’s violence must be put in context.”
Justification of Violence
In a November 2022 response to a Hamas-organized conference in Gaza, Albanese said “you have the right to resist this occupation.”
In June 2022, Albanese stated that “The Palestinians have no other room for dissent than violence,” justifying violence against Israel.
Upon the start of her term as Special Rapporteur in May 2022, Albanese began to justify terrorist violence stating: “The Palestinian violence that we see is inevitable because for 55 years, almost three generations, the right to exist of a people has been denied.”
Albanese’s antisemitism prior to her UN appointment
In 2014, in a post since hidden from her Facebook page, Albanese employs antisemitic tropes in an open letter to the BBC stating that: “The Israeli lobby is clearly inside your veins and system,” claiming of an “orwellian [sic] nightmare caused once again by Israel’s greed.”
In 2014, Albanese expressed excitement on Facebook that Hamas was removed from the list of terror organizations by the EU General Court: “Two good news one after another from the radio while I was taking a nap. Normalization in the relations usa cuba [sic] and removal of hamas [sic] from the list of terror organizations. Was i [sic] dreaming???” The EU’s decision to declassify Hamas as a terrorist organization was overturned by the European Court of Justice (EJC) in 2017.
In 2014, Albanese stated: “America and Europe, one of them subjugated by the Jewish lobby, and the other by the sense of guilt about the Holocaust.” When uncovered in 2022, Albanese’s comments were condemned by US Special Envoy to Combat Antisemitism, Deborah Lipstadt as “blatantly antisemitic.” Albanese has since said that she regrets this remark.
June 25, 2025 at 5:23 pm #57880I am not going to waste my time debunking all of the BS that Unseen continues to forward
Followed by 3100 words attempting to debunk the facts.
June 25, 2025 at 5:25 pm #57881If Netanyahu isn’t a war criminal, how high has the bar been set?
June 25, 2025 at 7:41 pm #57882Pope,
” I don’t want to just write off Palestinians or Palestine, but if Hamas is the disease, how can the disease be isolated from spreading beyond Palestine? ”
Hamas is an insignificant excrescence of a disease. It is not THE disease. The disease is Palestinianism. The patient is as good as dead. The disease has metastisized to all of the vital organs. All of the Islamic nations and the far left are advocates of Palestinianism. If you keep listening to those interviewees on Yasmine’s show you will notice it is the same everywhere; the singular obsession with ending Israel and killing Jews. Palestinianism is going mainstream little by little. In process of normalizing open Jew hatred.
“There is a better world out there – a world of salvation, a world of racial purity, a world of human rights, of cleanliness, and that the collective Jew stands between this world and utopia.”
Jews are the eternal scapegoats. Temporal distortions do not upend the aforementioned mythology. Jew hatred morphs and morphs but it is the unending demonization and persecution of a tiny minority who are finally fighting back now that they have a state. The blood libels just keep coming.
Palestinianism is of necessity a johny-come-lately. Palestinians or people who identify themselves that way only started around the time of the attack on Jews in 1948 by Arabs. First the Arabs in the region of modern Israel and later a coalition of 5 Arab nations. And ever since the ancient kingdsom of the Jews came back to life it has been one war after another against Israel. One terrorist action after another against Israel. Genocidal for realzies in their intent.
Before that the term Palestinians was attached to Jews in the mandate. Palestinian soccer teams were Jewish. Jerusalem Post, a jewish newspaper, was the Palestine Post.
So why would so many nations and terrorists find common purpose in their opposition and opprobrium for all things Jewish and Israeli? Easy. Jews were dhimmis. Jews were religiously and culturally shit on and persecuted. Islam is a supremacist religion. Unlike Jews who give their former enemies equal rights they could not and would not tolerate Jews having their own state. In the case of lefties it is imo simply a way of amplifying their aesthetic construct of history and supercharging it with their underlying biases.
Don’t ever be confused/fooled. The rest of the Islamic world is very good with Palestinians being fodder for their religious/ideological war on Israel and Jews. They could not give a rat’s how many Palestinians die. From 1948 to 1967 the west bank was occupied by Jordan. Gaza by Egypt. There was no political movement or effort to give Palestinians a state. And of course Palestinians in Arab/Muslim nations are victims of apartheid. No complaints whatsoever from the lefties. Mother of all hypocrites. Additionally Palestinians have been troublemakers in other Arab/Muslim countries.
The answer/solution is so simple. It lies in what i keep saying here how humans can be led like dogs can be conditioned. We will as a species believe and behave any which way we are conditioned. Do i have to give examples?
The far left and the Islamists have to lose the war of ideas. And when that happens, if that happens the obsessive and singular hatred will be mitigated. It is criminal how UNWRA has been funded. They supercharge Palestinianism so that the highest calling for many Palestinians is to kill Jews. The Germans lost. Moved on. Ended their mythology/ideology. Same for Japanese. Stop supporting Palestinianism. Stop inculcating and indoctrinating such a destructive and degenerate ideology.
June 26, 2025 at 2:43 am #57883If Netanyahu isn’t a war criminal, how high has the bar been set?
So here’s the irony/unfairness/cognitive dissonance in my current but potentially changing belief: Sometimes war crimes are necessary to thwart other war crimes.
Sorry, I really can’t land on a conclusion that honors a more humanistic perspective. Wait, except perhaps if an undetected asteroid hit and took out Israel, southern Lebanon, and Gaza. And then a plague hit with 1% survival rate that only infects theocrats. (Ohhh! “Brought to you by the real God that no one has written about, yet!”)
There is no other solution that wouldn’t be ultimately, reasonably considered to be a war crime.
But I’m open to hearing humanistic solutions that would actually work. (This is a whole lot more complicated than the Trolley Switch conundrum. Or perhaps Buddha will come back for a surprise party.)
(Jake, I’ll read your response when I’m feeling high and invulnerable. Or sooner. But I’m retiring early today.)
June 26, 2025 at 6:07 am #57884Fellow Unbelievers,
A fantastic video interview by Michael Shermer with Einat Wilf (Down, boy, down! Heel! It’s just a name! 🐕🦺)
How to Achieve Peace in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
It’s one year old, but still timely and timeless in it’s insights on scapegoating, Antisemitism, Anti-Zionism, war, and more.
Michael Shermer is of course a fellow Skeptic, not a Evangelical Christian type, so there’s no religious agitprop involved.
Ms. Wilf taught me a new concept of “West-splaining” which is viewing Islamic Arab ways through a Western prism to try and excuse or minimize them.
This misunderstanding take the form of things like Western support for a “two-state solution,” when Israel’s enemies understand this to mean two Arab states, not one Arab, one Jewish. Also it includes the misinterpretation of the Palestinian slogan, which actually says: “From the water to the water, the land shall be Arab.”
The video also gets into the history of the Christian and Islamic roots of Anti-Jewish sentiment, including treatment of Jews under Sha’ria law, how Anti-Jewish sentiment morphed from religious to racial, how Antisemitism of the Czars and the Nazis morphed into Anti-Zionism and “Zionism is Racism” via the Soviet Communists and the U.N. I knew all this before, but Ms. Wilf encapsulates it in a tight package.
Basically, this conflict will not end with foreign aid bribes, mere land deals, ending settlements, or drawing of lines on a map. It will only end when Arab and Muslim Identities no longer require a view of the Jew as a scapegoat for problems and no longer require a view of Jews as subordinate, unequal human beings.
Speaking from my end, this, of course, requires rational thought to identify the real source of problems in Arab and -Islamic lands and at very least separating Religion and State. Whether this ever happens, remains to be seen.
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This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by
TheEncogitationer. Reason: Punctuation and spelling
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This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by TheEncogitationer. Reason: Addendum and spelling
June 26, 2025 at 12:27 pm #57887It’s obvious that centuries of persecution by both Christians and Muslims are responsible for the current situation of a militant Israel. Guilt-ridden, post WW2 Europeans and Americans were happy to export Jews to Palestine, land of zero Mideast oil and lowly Arabs. And you better believe Arabs were in-turn forced to evacuate by gunpoint. Places and towns were even renamed.
To think this Jew hatred has ever been a left/right issue is nonsense. Both the extreme left Soviets and extreme right Nazis both hate Jews. This is a cultural/religion- based hatred. The Jews reject Jesus and Mo and Stalin as the ultimate saviors. They provide that hard-core doubt that only god’s chosen can provide. That thorn in a sandal. And the destruction of Jews is inter-linked with pay-off day for the other two faiths.
And yeah, the Palestinians need a transformation. They are a young brain-washed population that have a singular mission doomed to fail. You would think a life of camping in a fucking pile of rubble would be enough. But no, that’s how tweaked their brains have gotten.
June 26, 2025 at 4:03 pm #57888So, if it takes slaying every last Palestinian man, woman, and child to make Israelis feel safe, that’s a valid justification?
File that along with “We had to destroy the village in order to save it” under the topic “The dystopian ‘logic’ of war.”
June 26, 2025 at 5:01 pm #57889@popebeanie So, if it takes slaying every last Palestinian man, woman, and child to make Israelis feel safe, that’s a valid justification? File that along with “We had to destroy the village in order to save it” under the topic “The dystopian ‘logic’ of war.”
The need a change in ideology. The brainwashed goals they strive for are just not gonna happen, no matter the weaponization of the wombs of all the mothers as Yasser Arafat once put it. Hell, the dumb-ass American Confederates had a way better chance, and they had like one cannon factory.
June 26, 2025 at 7:09 pm #57890Robert agree with a lot of what you have written but not all.
Wouldn’t say Europeans and Americans were happy to export Jews. Nobody wanted em? If that is what you mean by export, okay. British mandate limited number of Jews who were permitted in any given year. Similarly restrictive immigration policies against Jews in places like USA and Canada resulted in no choice for Jews but to go to their ancient home. There was an agreement between zionists and Nazi Germany in 1933 to dump some of their jews there until there was not and in turn no escape.
“And you better believe Arabs were in-turn forced to evacuate by gunpoint. Places and towns were even renamed.”
Before 1948 both Arabs and Jews had terrorists. Once again, age of nationalism as empires crumbled. Jews and Arabs both wanted Brits out of there. The greater harm was caused by Arabs. Bunch of pogroms against Jews starting in about 1920. The famous King David Hotel was not as often portrayed but i wont get into it. The bullshit about “give the land to the Jews” irks me. Just as valid to say give the land to the Arabs some of whom were also Johny come lately due to the opportunities created by economic opps that always come with Jews and Brits. If the Arabs had not been intransigent as a result of their disgusting ideology none of this would have ensued.
Arabs were the aggressors. Jews accepted partition. And remember if it were not for the ingenuity and know how of Jews the land ultimately constituting modern Israel was shithole mosquito infested malaria producing and all purchased by Jews. Jews solved the malaria and brought in advanced irrigation. Without Jews who knows how many decades it would have taken to ameliorate that shithole. And remember that the borders very closely coincided with the land purchased.
The nakba is a bunch of bullshit as a cry me a fucking river we are eternal victims called Palestinians. When you attack and you lose there are consequences! A few hundred thousand Arabs stayed put and became citizens and have it better in Israel than anywhere else in middle east. Some chose to leave. Some were told by the Arab coalition leave temporarily and when we have slaughtered the filthy Jews you homies can come back. It is also true that some were forced out by Jews at gunpoint. Oh my god Jews are humans.
If anyone is gonna bring up the nakba as a knockba on the Jews in fairness it must be juxtaposed against two factors. One is the incredible number of displaced post WW2 persons who became refugees. 10s of millions. None of em stayed that way for long. Only the Palestinians. Generation after generation that the west and UN go along with to further the project of anti Israel policy. Second is the Jews who were murdered and who were forced to leave all over the middle east. Lefties don’t talk about that but the numbers of displaced Jews in middle east exceeds the number of Arabs that left. And that is why over half of Israeli Jews are dark skinned White colonizers! Can’t allow lefties to ever let truth or reality get in the way of a good story. Twain would appreciate that.
“To think this Jew hatred has ever been a left/right issue is nonsense. Both the extreme left Soviets and extreme right Nazis both hate Jews. This is a cultural/religion- based hatred. The Jews reject Jesus and Mo and Stalin as the ultimate saviors. They provide that hard-core doubt that only god’s chosen can provide. That thorn in a sandal. And the destruction of Jews is inter-linked with pay-off day for the other two faiths.”
Agree about the role of religion. It is undeniable. Envy also is a factor. Envy turns to hatred especially when shit aint going great guns. Nazi Germany had Jewish citizens who were more accomplished and more successful than other Germans and so it was a perfect storm with the underlying religious/cultural derived hatred mixing with the we need a scapegoat because we are butthurt with terms of penal Versailles treaty and then inflation run amok. I certainly blame the Jews.
Interesting query regarding left/right and whether they are equally sources of Jew hatred. The right is of course what we associate with nazism and fascism which in general produce Jew hatred. But what is the left? It is all fairly recent. Got the following from AI. “The terms “left” and “right” in a political context originated during the French Revolution in 1789. Initially, they referred to the seating arrangement in the French National Assembly, with supporters of the revolution sitting on the left and supporters of the monarchy on the right. Over time, these terms evolved to represent broader ideological positions, with “left” generally associated with progressive, egalitarian, and reformist ideas, and “right” associated with traditional, conservative, and hierarchical views.”
Stalin and Soviet Russia is the extreme of left. No denying it. As a whole though? I think of early labor movements. Early socialist movements. I don’t associate either with Jew hatred. Correct me if i am wrong. I know Jews were overrepresented in Socialist circles. The Jewish bund from the end of the 19th century was a fairly large Jewish movement and as far as i know all socialists. They sought to unite Jewish labor and give rights to Jews that had been lacking. And i think with the diaspora that bund was pretty widespread. In USA and around the world at around same time emergence of labor fighting the fight against business ultimately resulting in labor unions i don’t associate with Jew hatred. Similarly humanism is not in and of itself Jew hatred. In fact the lefties have completely betrayed humanism.
I worry that the far left and far right might find common cause in hating Jews to undo never again. Since Jews can’t ultimately depend on US for weapons since lefties would easily deny selling/giving any weapons to Israel and who knows as i mention where the far right will end up? As it was in the beginning?
“And yeah, the Palestinians need a transformation. They are a young brain-washed population that have a singular mission doomed to fail. You would think a life of camping in a fucking pile of rubble would be enough. But no, that’s how tweaked their brains have gotten.”
Agreed but it isn’t just the Palestinians. Islamism, Palestinianism, the far left are all abominations exhibiting abandonment of reason and are vicious enterprises.
I could rant like a mutha but i will stop.
June 26, 2025 at 7:13 pm #57891Enco,
I have not heard that one yet but i have listened/read a lot of Wilf. Linked some here too i think. She is awesome. I will give it a listen. You have derived good and valuable lessons.
June 26, 2025 at 8:08 pm #57892@popebeanie So, if it takes slaying every last Palestinian man, woman, and child to make Israelis feel safe, that’s a valid justification?
But I’m open to hearing humanistic solutions that would actually work.
(In those Trolley Switch scenario studies, it seems I’d be one of the few people who’d be willing to work the switch.)
And if I were taller, I’d like to play goalie.
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