Noel

[Noel]

“For every African Animist bought by a European Christian, there was usually a Arab Muslim broker who did the selling and an African Animist King who captured the slave in tribal warfare. The indigenous tribes of North America not only enslaved each other as spoils of tribal war, but also bought and held African slaves from Europeans.”

And this absolves those past europeans from owning and selling human beings? Because Africans and Arabs themselves sold the human beings Europeans are exempt from the horror of owning and selling and subjecting people to slave hours on end in farms and industry with no recompense? Wow. I am WOKE.

Ever notice how the history’s of the indigenous in the Americas is never present, except in pyramids in South America and artifacts in museums. Any written or documented history is rare and what ever there is left of it is from the viewpoint of Europeans (and considering that the Incas built cities and constructed canals and indoor plumbing you had to believe that they developed some form of written language) There was a reason for that. For following the Catholic churches orders and erasing all of the indigenous history.
When they reached Puerto Rico in 1493 and the indigenous Boriquenos greeted them they were immediately subjugated, made to work in diamond mines, and died from exhaustion, diseases , and, in the journals of a Spaniard Franciscan Monk we learned, torture. There were no Taino’s selling off Taino’s to the highest European bidder thereby absolving those Europeans from the horrors they inflicted on those peace loving people. Because what’s left of their history shows that they were peaceful. Though you couldn’t say the same for their cousins the Caribs who, evidence shows, were cannibals and did capture and sell other Caribbean tribes to Europeans. So there again, Europeans are absolved once more. Man, those Europeans did no wrong. It’s all the Africans and Indigenous fault all this slavery business.

Because Africans themselves sold human beings to Europeans and indigenous enslaved their captors it’s ok. Nothing to see here. A state has a right to fight for it’s people to keep their property. Am I right? States Rights. Isn’t that what the South said was the reason for it’s Civil War? A States right to own human beings. Back in the 1860’s they were fighting to the death, in America, to own human beings.

Listen, when it comes to this shit I am aware, awake, cognizant, what ever you want to label me…Woke. Learning this does not mean that white folk in America today of european dissent bare the responsibility or blame for what their forefathers did. Few people of color say that they are and the only ones who keep repeating this are White Folk.

I’ll give you that though. Africans and Arabs selling off humans to Europeans. So why are Americans fighting so hard to not have that taught in schools? Do German children not learn about Nazi’s and the Holocaust because Germans don’t want them to feel guilty? Why should they? They were not committing atrocities in the name of Nationalism and Hitler. They’re not responsible. Wonder if it’s the same in other countries, not teach history because someone’s feelings will be hurt. Woke.

Happy Sunday!

[Noel]

Hey Unseen: Help a brother out here:

Can I refer to the 1619 project for history of slavery? What? Too Woke.It’s been explained to me that the words Slave and Plantation are no longer acceptable and enslaved person and slave labor camp should be used instead. Slave can be used as an adjective but not a noun.

Is the word Holocaust still acceptable to use when describing Hitler and Nazi Germany’s extermination of six million Jews? Is Holocaust too Woke? No good?

Thanks, appreciate you.

[Noel]

Unseen: Touche! You’ve convinced me, I’m WOKE. Better to keep my mouth shut and just let others speak for me.

Exhausted with this shit. But you do make some salient points and I have to give it to you. Thanks for the lesson.

[Noel]

Probably because narcissists don’t think about consequences when they are sure they are warriors for what’s right and just. They also presume people who don’t agree with their dogma to be lesser beings one need not take account of.

Wow! How to unpack that?

Is it narcissistic to want to be treated equally?

Is it narcissistic to want to be able to make decisions about your own body?

Is it narcissistic to want the same opportunities afforded others?

Is it narcissistic to be LGBQT+ and want acceptance into the community?

Is it narcissistic to not have to follow different rules than others?

Is it narcissistic to worship or not worship and not be chastised for your decision?

Is there even such as thing as an American dream that’s inclusive of everyone?

Atheist. Our community of skeptics are considered a minority by the religious powers that be and by the entire population in general. We don’t have a voice in government. There is no one that speaks to our concerns. Proclaiming that you’re an atheist in government is akin to committing hari kari on the Capitol steps. We have no representation.

We are most of those people that we label “narcissist”. Unless we hitch our wagon to one political party or other but then we run the fear of having to use different labels. We leave our convictions to the wayside and follow the majority. If we as atheist ever grow a set and speak out to the unfairness of it all we, as outlined on this FSM thread, are labeled WOKE. Like it’s suppose to be some kind of curse word. Do we ever listen to ourselves or is it just turrets and impulse?

[Noel]

“Liberals practically handed them the keys. So busy focusing on superficial suppression and political correctness that millions of people are looking for an authoritarian to come out and center it all. ”

Yeah, must be so easy for them, despite having a Governor on their side, what with the State Representatives and State Senate majority’s all being MAGA. Also, six of the nine House Representatives in Washington are MAGA. Too busy getting to the bottom of those fake electors and Arizona MAGA stealing the general election madness too. There is nothing centrist about the MAGA movement. But you are right about Liberals and Political Correctness. Sucks being the grown up in the house. I like playing with my Playstation too.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by Noel.

[Noel]

So standing up for yourself and others because people are homophobes, racist, and intolerant is no longer acceptable? Speaking out about abuse is akin to being “Soft?” If we believe that than this is the most intolerant group of free thinkers I’ve ever come across. Or is being intolerant of others is that a prerequisite for free thinking and I just boarded the wrong mother fucking train?

They use to lynch people of African descent in the southern states and murder homosexuals for being homosexual. They still do. Speaking up about that is WOKE? You bet your ass it’s WOKE! It means that the folks speaking out against this shit have awakened to the possibility that it’s not acceptable to behave this way and also, screw freedom of speech trumping our pursuit of life and liberty. WOKE. In Tulsa the racist legislature just passed a law that you can teach children about the “Tulsa Riots” ne: Tulsa Massacre but you can’t say that it was RACIST. What in the actual fuck? We shouldn’t say anything about that cause it may be too woke?

That shit is still here. It may not manifest itself as a town lynching cause these days someone who’s racist can walk into a supermarket in Buffalo, NY, frequented mostly by African Americans, and unload several clips from their legally purchased assault rifle killing innocent people also pursuing “The American Way of Life”; whatever the fuck that is. But I bet asshole with the legally purchased assault weapon I bet he got his message across with all that free speech that’s going around. Free Speech. All for it but not in theater filled to capacity when asshole sitting next to me decides to falsely yell “Fire!”

[Noel]

“It’s laughable, but this is the sort of shyte extreme wokeism can lead to. I was called four eyes for wearing glasses, fatso because…well, you can guess, and yet I survived and I’m here today generally unscarred by the experience.”

Different times I guess. Maybe our social skills were a lot more developed. Looking at my 34 year son, who works IT and comes home to his place and immediately turns on his Playstation. No social skills what so ever. The outside world must be a really scary place for him. Ask him about friends and he says he has plenty. All on line.

Like I said different for us. We were forced to go outside and play and socialize. We were also brought up to “develop a tough hide”. What ever the fuck that means. Had a friend who told me that for the first 7 years of his life he thought his name was Sonofabitch. He lived with his father, who had custody since his mom passed, and when ever he was up to no good his father would yell out, “Sonofabitch what did you do now?”, “Sonofabitch throw out the trash”. I think he developed “tough skin”.

Wife’s nephew, 15 years old, bullied no end at school and was deemed persona non grata by most of the kids he called friends. He hung himself in his bedroom at around 3:00 am when he knew his parents were sound asleep. He did not have a tough hide. He was a great kid. No one picked up on the signs of the extent of his depression. Parents, school, family, and me could not see it.

[Noel]

@Davis:

“Woke has become a snarl word, used by those who resist change to old structures that give an unfair advantage to certain people and keep us from giving the respect and equality to all…”

Thank you. I needed someone to explain this to me like I was 10. Have been walking around doing my lawn, cutting the hedges, and power washing my driveway and the word woke is banging around the sides of my brain. I really had no reference or idea about WOKE. So thanks.

[Noel]

@ Unseen: “The destruction of the female lead in the name of “strong female character” wokeism.”

Yeah but, I don’t see you as a reincarnated Roger Ebert. And even if I did I love watching what I like. Goes right along with that whole live and let live mantra I apply to everyone.

I enjoy STRONG FEMALE CHARACTERS (Superhero’s) Grew up collecting comics and playing with superhero characters that myself and my three friends constructed with different color pipe cleaners. Way before Action Figures. I’m 65 and still watch superhero movies. Just got through Guardians of the Galaxy 3 which had those STRONG FEMALE characters everyones referencing as WOKE. But my 65 year old ass thoroughly enjoyed the escape back to my 12 year old childhood. Who knew, STRONG FEMALE characters; WOKE. The learning never stops.

[Noel]

Damn! You guys are rough (LOL).

I liked Captain Marvel! Brie Larson is so easy on the eyes! And as powerful as she was in that movie the writers made sure Thanos kicked her ass in the last installment of the Avengers. (is my geek showing?)

Jessica Chastain in Zero Dark Thirty. Loved her performance. Was that Woke? I don’t fucking know (LoL) I’m so confused.

I can see how MAGA’s can label movies with a strong female character as crap. They’re deathly afraid of strong female characters. Whether in the movies or in real life.

[Noel]

Can you guys give some examples of WOKE movies? I’m having a hard time even with the definition to the word WOKE.

Thanks

[Noel]

I don’t see it. The Muslim assimilation into American society.

My experience has been that they tend to associate only with others in their tribe. Talk to most New York City Muslim cabby’s and they’ll tell you that they have college degrees but find it hard to find jobs in their chosen fields.

I’ve had full on conversations where we pull over get coffee and talk about the “Islamic situation”. Weird thing is that they harbor no resentment for the hand they’re being dealt. Most are truly grateful and happy to be here. Why do they talk to me? Sometimes in Arabic? Because they all think I’m middle eastern. Iraqi actually. When I tell them I’m Puerto Rican they always ask me, “where is that?”

Ran into one who started spotting shit about America. When I told him I wasn’t Muslim or middle eastern he stopped.

[Noel]

The Convention on Cluster Munitions (CCM) is an international treaty that prohibits all use, transfer, production, and stockpiling of cluster munitions, a type of explosive weapon which scatters submunitions (“bomblets”) over an area. Additionally, the convention establishes a framework to support victim assistance, clearance of contaminated sites, risk reduction education, and stockpile destruction. The convention was adopted on 30 May 2008 in Dublin,[6] and was opened for signature on 3 December 2008 in Oslo. It entered into force on 1 August 2010, six months after it was ratified by 30 states.[2] As of April 2023, a total of 123 states are committed to the goal of the convention, with 111 states that have ratified it, and 12 states that have signed the convention but not yet ratified it.[3]a

Countries that ratify the convention will be obliged “never under any circumstances to”:[7]

Use cluster munitions;
Develop, produce, otherwise acquire, stockpile, retain or transfer to anyone, directly or indirectly, cluster munitions;
Assist, encourage or induce anyone to engage in any activity prohibited to a State Party under this Convention.

The United States, Russia, and The Ukraine are not signatories to this agreement. Further, the agreement states that nations that are still using these munitions can still be supported by the signatories of the agreement. The Truth.

[Noel]

Unseen: Anyway, you didn’t supply an adequate answer to why Sarin nerve gas* wouldn’t be better than cluster munitions. More effective on the battlefield and once it’s done it’s done. No lingering after effects killing Ukrainian children.
* BTW, I’ve changed over to Sarin because I discovered that mustard gas is only an irritant and only kills at most 2% of the time whereas Sarin is many times more effective. How effective depends on many factors so there is no set kill rate, but whatever it is, it is generally far more effective than mustard gas. We know this from its use in Syria, allegedly by Syria, but who knows?

“Sarin is widely considered a weapon of mass destruction. Production and stockpiling of sarin was outlawed as of April 1997 by the Chemical Weapons Convention of 1993, and it is classified as a Schedule 1 substance.”

Cluster munitions have not been outlawed… Yet. The only country to have used chemical weapons in recent times is… drum roll please… wait for it… RUSSIA. They used them in Syria.

Unseen: We have no accurate accounting of what happens to weapons we give Ukraine. We do know that a lot of them never reach the battlefield but instead are sold on the black market, which means they will likely be used on Americans someday. But what the hey… Ukraine was known as the most corrupt country in Europe before the war. More corrupt, even, than Russia. Our troops can now look forward to being killed by American-made cluster munitions.

Now how do we know about “weapons to Ukraine on the black market?” References?

They, Ukraine, is on track to join Nato, so they are not going to “kill Americans” in their own clic. Not unless they really don’t want to be part of Nato. According to you joining NATO is what all of this is all about.

That dud rate mostly applies to Russian built cluster munitions since they (and Ukraine, who had stockpiles from the old Soviet days) are the ones using them the last 20 or so years.

Unseen: “America’s actions in Syria? When Russia kills them, they’re “innocent civilians,” when we do they are “unavoidable collateral damage.” Maybe we don’t do it with cluster bombs, but that makes little difference to a here today gone tomorrow Syrian civilian.”

But the topic is cluster munitions.

Unseen: “Somebody is either lying or ridiculously badly ill-informed. I covered this fairly extensively in a former post. Me? I don’t believe a damned thing a military PR guy is told to say.”

You mean like the government accountability office?

Unseen: “Russia, Russia, Russia. Ukraine is not so squeaky clean. ”

But Ukraine is the country being invaded by the Russians to the North of them. Why so much animosity towards the country doing the defending and none towards the aggressor with the overwhelming means to put it’s boot on their necks? Russia has committed war crimes. They are on video. Whole villages in Ukraine massacred and buried in mass graves; that’s documented and cataloged. They are fucking evil and it’s on video and on the internet.

Let me be clear, I’m not on a crusade to change hearts and minds about war, Ukraine, Russia, politics, and especially religion. But stating something without looking at three sides of the story is counter productive to finding the TRUTH. Unseen, you have presented cogent answers to the topic of the dangers of Cluster Munitions. I don’t see how anyone can build a defense for Russia’s actions, not just in The Ukraine but in Syria and Africa to name a few.

Until we start seeing video of Ukraines army killing innocent civilians and dumping their bodies into mass graves I think supporting their effort to oust the invaders is the right thing to do. When we find that they are indiscriminately dropping cluster munitions on population centers in Russia then I’ll have to rethink my support of that effort.

[Noel]

Unseen said: the reasons about 150 nations regard their use as criminal are just dumb? And if effectiveness is to be the overriding standard for the use of weapons, hell, why not mustard gas, whose effect on the civilian population years and decades into the future would be much smaller?

Point taken. You missed the entire exercise though. Over 100 nations are against the use of Cluster Munitions, that’s true. The reason isn’t because countries like France, Germany, and the U.S. are using them to indiscriminately bomb civilians. It’s because Russia is the only country in possession of these munitions that indiscriminately bombs civilians. That’s a fact.

The United States has not used these munitions for quite some time. They have stockpiles sitting in magazines and, with assurances from Zelenski that they would use them responsibly, they are starting to supply them to Ukraine. No new cluster munitions are being produced.

BTW: Munitions, despite all the care taken to set their fuses, do sometimes not explode. Take a walk through Fallon, Nevada’s U.S. Navy bombing range if you don’t believe me. But be warned, the mosquitos there are as big as dogs. Most Naval flights, if not all, that take off a carrier, do not return with unexploded munitions on their wing stores. Makes sense. So what happens to these munitions, they’re dumped, preferably out at sea.

Tell you what though, If you really have a really deep and overriding feeling about cluster munitions and the harm they cause, you might want to have this conversation with Russians. Last I looked America and Nato and Ukraine were not dropping bombs and firing missiles into population centers. But you know who is? Russia.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by Noel.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by Noel.

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