The case made for Christ

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This topic contains 117 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  michael17 2 weeks, 1 day ago.

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  • #31442

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Robert that was AoKay. Reminds me of Mark Twain.

    #31444

    Davis
    Participant

    Indeed. While the Old Testament listed harsh rules, obsessed over sexual prohibition (or encouragement of war rape), God’s total fury and random vengeance and tales of political pettiness and wars and the New Testament gave a ever so slightly less scary version of the same thing until the last book with the Quran also being an extremely unpleasant text to read for the most part … many (though definitely not all) hindu texts gave a fairly rational breakdown (long discourses) on the nature of politics, psychology, the mind, power structures, human habits, happiness, art, the nature of history and so on. In other words its a comparison of a desert dwelling mindset talking in caveman talk that never got better  (the Abraham holy texts) vs. the sometimes refined and elevated texts of hinduism (and the same can be said for Bhuddism, Taoism etc). That doesn’t mean there aren’t bizarre and creepy books in all of their cannons, but yeah, there are a whole LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT more pearls of wisdom in the Eastern religious texts than the simpleton barbarity of the Abrahamic religions.

    #31445

    I often ask Christians why they think Christian morality is better than that of Buddhism. I have yet to get a satisfactory answer. From the works of Annie Besant (1885).

    Where opposing theories are concerned an ounce of fact outweighs pounds of assertion; and so against the statement of Christians, that morality is derived only from the Bible and is undiscoverable by “man’s natural faculties,” I quote the morality of natural religion, unassisted by what they claim as their special “revelation.”

    Buddha, as he lived 700 years before Christ, can hardly be said to have drawn his morality from that of Jesus or even to have derived any indirect benefit from Christian teaching, and yet I have been gravely told by a Church of England clergyman—who ought to have known better—that forgiveness of injuries and charity were purely Christian virtues. This heathen Buddha, lighted only by natural reason and a pure heart, teaches: “a man who foolishly does me wrong I will return to him the protection of my ungrudging love; the more evil comes from him the more good shall go from me;” among principal virtues are: “to repress lust and banish desire; to be strong without being rash; to bear insult without anger; to move in the world without setting the heart on it; to investigate a matter to the very bottom; to save men by converting them; to be the same in heart and life.”

    “Let a man overcome evil by good, anger by love, the greedy by liberality, the liar by truth. For hatred does not cease by hatred at any time; hatred ceases by love; this is an old rule.” He inculcates purity, charity, self-sacrifice, courtesy, and earnestly recommends personal search after truth: “do not believe in guesses”—in assuming something at hap-hazard as a starting-point—reckoning your two and your three and your four before you have fixed your number one. Do not believe in the truth of that to which you have become attached by habit, as every nation believes in the superiority of its own dress and ornaments and language. Do not believe merely because you have heard, but when of your own consciousness you know a thing to be evil abstain from it. Methinks these sayings of Buddha are unsurpassed by any revealed teaching, and contain quite as noble and lofty a morality as the Sermon on the Mount, “natural” as they are.

     

    #31507

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    According to Nathan Filer, in “The Heartland – finding and losing schizophrenia” – only 70% of schizophrenics experience feelings of persecution, while “grandiosity” is a mainstay.  So, it’s very plausible that Jesus was a schizophrenic.

    #31508

    michael17
    Participant

    According to Nathan Filer, in “The Heartland – finding and losing schizophrenia” – only 70% of schizophrenics experience feelings of persecution, while “grandiosity” is a mainstay. So, it’s very plausible that Jesus was a schizophrenic.

    Miracles and unexpainable  wonders happen today. Miracles and wonders therefore don’t support that conclusion.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by  michael17.
    #31510

    Miracles and explainable wonders happen today. Miracles and wonders therefore don’t support that conclusion.

    Yes, your God-did-it all. Those Hindu gods that you are an atheist towards are useless.

    #31511

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Miracles and explainable wonders happen today. Miracles and wonders therefore don’t support that conclusion. Yes, your God-did-it all. Those Hindu gods that you are an atheist towards are useless.

    I do start to envy the childlike nature of theists sometimes. Then I remember it is just a case of siloed intelligence.

    #31512

    michael17
    Participant

    @Reg and Robert

    Scientist don’t have a plausible explanation for Zeuiton Egypt, Skinwalker Ranch can be view 24 hours a day on the internet. Buddhist monks can combust paper in their hand and sit in boiling oil. All of these have no explanation.   Science is deaf, dumb and blind when it comes to the supernatural.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by  michael17.
    #31514

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Buddhist monks can combust paper in their hand and sit in boiling oil.

    It is way more probable that your degree of skepticism is questionable; however Buddhist monks do on occasion combust with the help of petrol while performing perhaps the ultimate in passive-aggressive behavior. Such a childish attempt at a solution does not impress rational people at all.

    #31515

    Michael when you encounter something that you cannot explain you claim it is supernatural. Why not say “we don’t yet know”? Your are engaging in magical thinking.

    Science is deaf, dumb and blind when it comes to the supernatural.

    Yes. Absolutely correct. This is because there is nothing supernatural. Again this is magical thinking, a legacy of our species past that was mired in ignorance and kept that way for centuries because anyone who suggested differently was endangering their own life because Christians were likely to kill or imprison them.

    There is nothing supernatural to be investigated, only unknown natural phenomena awaiting explanation. But why are Christians even concerned that Science has not yet provided an answer.  When Science has not yet answered it they claim their God is behind it. When Science improves our understanding of a phenomenon they then claim their God is even more amazing to have created it thus. So why do they bother looking for an answer when it is always their “God-did-it” anyway.

    For most of our species existence we trembled at the power of the gods when thunder and lightening were seen as signs that they were angry with us. Faraday explained lightening and then people stopped being afraid only to turn around and claim their God was still orchestrating it.

    There is no supernatural investigative Science team in an reputable University. It is not needed. Just like Liberty University no longer has a Philosophy Department. Who needs to develop critical thinking skills when they already profess to have a personal relationship with the Creator of the Universe.

    #31516

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Thinking is the devil’s whore. I made a bet. I made a score. They pulled the lever. Then pulled it more.

    #31517

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    Reg the Fronkey Farmer wrote:
    Why not say “we don’t yet know”? Your are engaging in magical thinking. Science is deaf, dumb and blind when it comes to the supernatural. Yes. Absolutely correct. This is because there is nothing supernatural.

    Technically speaking, aren’t you doing exactly the same thing?  Filling in “I don’t know” with “I know”?

    #31518

    No. I am not making a counter or opposing claim that something else is the answer. Again, it is the case that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. There is no evidence for any miracles occurring. They are just claims made by theists or magical thinkers. I am not seeing something that isn’t there.

    I go to a show and see a very good magic act (trick). Everyone in the audience claims\asserts\believes that Science cannot explain the trick. They claim there are dark forces at play. This guy is a “real” magician. Magic really exists.

    I suggest they wait until it is formally investigated before jumping to their conclusion. No, no, no, they clamor, it is real! The act itself is real evidence of the supernatural at work.

    To me they are blinded by their own incredulity. I consider the whole audience to be duped. I remain an agnostic. It is only “magic” to them until the trick is explained. Some will refuse to listen to the explanation or try to counter it because it dismantled their worldview. Others are disappointed that it is not “real magic”. More are annoyed at their own gullibility and confused about what to do next. Most will engage in some critical thinking and just move on because “There is nothing to see here”.

    You could say that my disbelief in the magic act and their belief in it are opposites. But their claim to its veracity and my lack of belief in their claim are not.

    My atheism is not the opposite of Christianity.

    People still believe in Astrology. Science has long debunked its claims.  As a Capricorn I am confident in saying that it exerts no influence on my life! I have often been told how wrong I am for not taking it seriously. People have categorically stated, with no hint of irony, that the stars in the Capricorn system have influenced my life from the day I was born.

    I usually ask them if they were happy that the WSGN approved the old name Deneb Algedi as a star name. I had always liked the sound of that name and its rotational velocity of 65 mph. Do any of the other 10 million stars systems near it influence my life or just that one constellation?

    Oh be a cynical as you want Reg but we are correct because we have experienced the predictions to be proven over and over again.

    I am not being cynical, I am being skeptical.

    Are you telling me that a constellation of stars, one of several billion, and one that was 2,293,000,000,000,000,00 miles away from Earth when I was born which is about 23 million times further away from us than our Sun, has predetermined my life on Planet Earth? And you are a Christian? WTF!

    You are all engaging in magical thinking. Me? I am just correct that you are all wrong.  Now I am off to have my palm read by a really good spiritualist. Where is my wallet??

    #31519

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Theists are deaf, dumb and blind to discovering through investigation that their mythology is only mythology. Where are the experiments to discover the soul, heaven, and hell?

    Imagine one’s world view being aesthetic, primitive, ritualistic, formulaic, devoid of evidence while promising immortality and yet contentedly going about without a care when the gateway to this other world is rejection of the need for evidence. How convenient, eh?

    Some of those selfsame theists are scientists. So where is the science? Tell a theistic scientist that you are positive that there are cardboard boxes in aluminum warehouses in which space men have deposited the hybrid human/alien babies and be prepared to hear how that claim requires evidence. But, but, but… So where are those theistic scientists who are conducting experiments to authenticate their mythology>? Become the most famous person in all history by revealing the soul escaping the body and making a bee line for a distant realm in which the after life occurs. Yeah baby!

    The nearest we come is michael. He reads the tea leaves. We have seen how that is.

    #31520

    Unseen
    Participant

    @Reg and Robert Scientist don’t have a plausible explanation for Zeuiton Egypt, Skinwalker Ranch can be view 24 hours a day on the internet. Buddhist monks can combust paper in their hand and sit in boiling oil. All of these have no explanation. Science is deaf, dumb and blind when it comes to the supernatural.

    Michael, your problem is the almost total absence of a BS detector. Maybe everything is possible, right? Maybe anyone can fly like a bird if they just start believing in Buddhism. Maybe an object can be both spherical and cubical at the same time. If everything is possible, truth is irrelevant and knowledge is impossible. What tools are you applying to disprove them? What intellectual tools are you applying to confirm your belief that “Buddhist monks can combust paper in their hand and sit in boiling oil”? Have you seen it happen in person? And if you have, what steps did you take to confirm that you weren’t being fooled?

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