Sunday School

Sunday School 1st May 2022.

This topic contains 41 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by  TheEncogitationer 7 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 42 total)
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  • #42788

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Jake,

    As long as The Ministry of Truth confirms that the writer of the Disclaimer has a weird definition of “religion” and otherwise “doth protest too much, methinks.” 😁

    #42789

    Davis
    Moderator

    Yawn Enco. Your skill at hyper generalising and drawing ridiculous conclusions has become tiresome. I didn’t bother to read the links and I doubt anyone will. You truly are insulting everyone’s intelligence.

    #42792

    Autumn
    Participant

    Yawn Enco. Your skill at hyper generalising and drawing ridiculous conclusions has become tiresome. I didn’t bother to read the links and I doubt anyone will. You truly are insulting everyone’s intelligence.

    Or he’s just insulting himself.

    I glossed the links. It’s a year-old incident of negligible significance. A smattering of demonstrators gathering in solidarity with demonstrations over the Derek Chauvin stopped briefly at a Taqueria en route. They did a chant about not wanting the money generated in the community by a white-owned taqueria, and while I am sure there is some legitimacy to the sentiment, they are clearly fucking about. I mean, even the protestors can be heard laughing and then joke at the end “Tip 30%”.

    OMFG! Young people being irreverent, opinionated, and fucking about? I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF SUCH CRAZINESS ALL THE WOKE MUST BE A JOKE!!!!!!!!11111111111

    What I am getting at is TheEncogitationer puts in plenty of effort to show us his intellectual cowardice, incoherence, and irrational bias, and I for one believe in rewarding effort with a little recognition.

     

    #42793

    Autumn
    Participant

    Oh, I was pay-walled on the WaPo thing, so I can’t really comment there. Looking at the video footage elsewhere, that one actually looks a little fucked up. To be honest, if we didn’t live in an era of trial by social media though, it seems like it would be a non-event.

    But again, there is a broader narrative here about where white people stand in the fight for equity and equality and what it means to show solidarity with a movement. While it’s fine to criticize actions like accosting diners, it’s bullshit to use it as a lame ass distraction issue.

    #42816

    Belle Rose
    Participant

    @Reg

    RE article: Why are Republicans so obsessed with your gender?

    I read somewhere that in order to protest this, there’s a school district somewhere that sent out a letter to parents basically saying (loosely paraphrased) “since gender is something we cannot discuss and we must treat every person fairly, as to not fall into any controversy and to make sure we are following the law that gender is not to be discussed, going forward we are referring to EVERYONE regardless of their gender as “they/them.”

    I just about died laughing! 😂 so brilliant!

    #42827

    Autumn
    Participant

    In Academia, Equality is not the same as Equity.

    Generally, equity and equality aren’t the same.

    Equality means that each person is given equal opportunity; equity means that outcomes must be equal, without regard for the capabilities or efforts of the individuals concerned.

    That’s not what equity means.

    Despite the article author being a knob, the subject matter is interesting. I agree that there are issues surrounding standardized testing and I wouldn’t advocate for a system that relies on it as an admission standard; however, that doesn’t mean you can just remove SAT/ ACT and expect the problem(s) to go away.

    #42828

    @autumnThat’s not what equity means.

    In the education system Equality (imo) is about providing all students with the same level of access and resources to achieve their goals. Equity deals with the different circumstances of each student. It puts systems and processes in place to ensure that all students can see the equality of opportunity working in reality.

    But who is it that not just sees where the lack of equity makes equality not achievable? The people who are “Woke”. They see the problem that (say) a wheelchair user has, that minorities have or anyone financially challenged paying for rent, food, books, social life event etc. And then they address it and once equity is achieved (or restored) they continue to monitor the situation. The “wokeness” has to continues because the natural state of things is for the “most equal”, intentionally (or often not) to skew the system to favor themselves (as in 4 legs good, 2 legs bad) because much of the discriminatory attitudes and systems are still there that cause the lack of equity problems. This is because many of the privileged were asleep to the problems in the first place and have not got around to becoming aware of the concerns of those outside their own group.

    For me “wokeness” is seeing and identifying a problem, making others aware that it is a problem and recognizing it as something that needs to be addressed. Any system can only achieve equality when the inequities are removed. This does not mean that standards have to be lowered. So I am all for keeping SAT and ACT tests.

    #42829

    Autumn
    Participant

    I don’t know if keeping the SAT and ACT actually does raise standards. Part of why they are viewed as racist and/ or classist is you can teach to the test. If you have inequitable resources going to teaching and test prep, are the SAT and ACT seeking out, on average, the students with the greatest potential, or those with the greatest advantage?

    But simply removing the tests doesn’t address that. Disparities in educational resources don’t just go away. In some underfunded school systems I’ve read it is unlikely or even impossible to get the necessary credits for consideration. And then we have issues like grade inflation making comparability between schools difficult. So in order for students from those schools to be considered, adjustments to admission criteria have to be made. But that’s just treating a symptom, not a cause. Students in underfunded education systems are going to be less likely to succeed because they had less resources with which to prepare themselves.

    The SAT and ACT don’t fix any of that. But they did provide a means for students coming from under-resourced schools to prove their commitment and level of preparedness making it easier for post secondary institutions to select students likely to succeed.

    Which feeds back into what you were saying. ‘Woke’ equity measures are rarely going to be the end of the story because equity measures often address something specific or localized—possibly due to limited means for effecting greater change—when there are systemic issues that disproportionately affect some demographics over others. If we aren’t going to look at the entire system, then we’re going to be stuck in a never-ending process of patchwork solutions.

    #42832

    Belle Rose
    Participant

    Equity vs Equality

     

    #42833

    @autumnI don’t know if keeping the SAT and ACT actually does raise standards. Part of why they are viewed as racist and/ or classist is you can teach to the test. If you have inequitable resources going to teaching and test prep, are the SAT and ACT seeking out, on average, the students with the greatest potential, or those with the greatest advantage?

    The point about any ingrained bias that can lead to unintended discrimination in the tests is a valid point I will admit to not having considered. My 2 (mixed race) nieces aced both tests and went to college with GPA’s of over 4.3. They are completely self motivated but they are also highly intelligent and have a very stable family life. Their college is within the State for them.

    I also know of someone from a less fortunate background that got similar scores and got a full scholarship based on his results in an out of State college. His mother promptly gave up on of her jobs on hearing the news and the joy on her face will remain with me.

    On a different note – I started reading their APC course books in Math and Physics and discovered that I have forgotten much of what I once knew. I would fail it now not just because I didn’t know all the answers but because I did not understand many of the questions 🙂

    I drove over to the college late one night to drop my niece back and she wanted to show me the library at almost 1:00am. It was exam week. The was hardly a sound and no free seats or desk space. One person looked up for a second, stretched and continued reading. The other 500 students did not notice us. America, your future is bright!

     

     

    #42834

    ysumlin
    Participant

    I really tried to keep my two cents out of this because my views and opinion would not be on the subject matter but what triggered me to add my view was the mention of minorities and mixed race. We are all humans and there should be no expression of minorities or mixed race in the conversation because how can we equate humans mixed with humans?  How can we equate a majority versus minority?  When we are all the same and should not be viewed as a separate species as if we are some kind of animals which often this word is used, and even then it’s wrong unless we have crossbreeding as if a feline and a K-9 engage in a sexual act  but the two can not reproduce but when we can reproduce then this must mean we are the same species and not a separate group. We need to stop using skin colors as a race because it really hurt people who were affected by this evil construct and to stress my point even better using the idea if I said all people with hair is superior to those without hair and the following demeaning rules that you have no rights, you are considered as not being human and that you are the lowest of everything on earth, would you accept this if you have no hair? Race by skin colors was founded on these very principles of “Scientific Racism” and it needs to be stopped now because it really pains deeply if you are a darkly pigmented human such as myself.

    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  ysumlin.
    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  ysumlin.
    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  ysumlin.
    #42838

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    I know it’s boring, but I’m not sure about these definitions of equality and equity.  As far as I could tell from my research in the academics, “equity” is poorly defined and means one thing one place and something else another.  I have come to the conclusion that “equity” means “being fair”, and equality is the basis of fairness: equality of fruits of labour, equal unit of reward per unit of input (proportionality), equal respect for needs, equal treatment for example based on being a senior citizen (any senior citizen).

    Equality of opportunity is the same as equal respect for needs in my opinion.  In other words, the more needs you have, then the more goods you need in order to level your playing field.

    Conservatives tend to favour proportionality (you have to earn it) while liberals tend to favour equal shares of fruits of labour, and equal respect for needs.

    Equality of outcome is treated as a nasty and noxious thing by our friend, Jordan Peterson.  I don’t even hear liberals talking about equality of outcome though.  I’m not sure.  I think that’s the version that poisons the fairness well.  All the other versions treat people as responsible agents, which is a form of respect.  Equality of outcome sounds a bit like Soviet Russia, where people couldn’t be bothered to lift a finger because it made no difference to whether they had a job and were paid.

    #42839

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Ysumlin, the notions you espouse or hope to achieve are in my estimation never going to occur. Nothing close. We all or almost all see skin color. We also see physical characteristics. Aquiline nose. Button nose. Big nose. Small nose.

    For the many among us who harbor racial stereotypes it is not until we come to know individuals with perceived physical differences and assumed (fill in the stereotype) differences that the BS melts away and the commonality emerges. I acknowledge and agree that notions of race are borne of pseudo science and lacking in justification.

    In terms of labels i reiterate how utterly wrong it is to adopt POC as a term to describe first Blacks and then other non-Whites. We see color. We just do. It is a line of demarcation in our ape brains. When we use POC it means we are excluding Whites. The perspective is from Whites who historically saw themselves as the default humans and the ones who did not look the same as subhuman and colored in. Labels matter. Using POC perpetuates that historical slander. It is like a bad euphemism. “oh is he colored? No, he is a person of color. Use the correct term, dear.”

    That is why i am ok with using the terms, Black and White. They are consonant. There is no inherent value judgment. I recognize a point you’ve made that there are so many negative associations with the color Black and positive with the color White. That is unfortunate but it is not surprising.

    #42843

    ysumlin
    Participant

    @ Jakelafort. I never use the term POC for the same reasons I hate the term white people, neither has a place for this rubbish in our world I wish we can go back before these constructs were invented, just like it was before skin colors was used for race. Before religions and race people were free and more harmonious than we are today. Religions causes a great divide and human sufferings the same reasons as skin colors, so why would we wish to keep something that is false and destructive? I would rather focus on something that is positive and peaceful, and I would think people would want the same since we all are 99.9% Identical. The features you spoke of is only because of the amount of melanin that attributes to skin colors, facial features, hair texture and others. We are all one species, one people, living on this one planet and this makes all of the other falsehoods irrelevant. Let us not not forget that skin colors was used to justify slavery and I will forever oppose this sickness, no human being on this planet should be bound in bondage and I don’t give a damn even if it’s servitude.

    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  ysumlin.
    #42845

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Belle Rose,

    What someone needs to say in both pictures is: “Hey, you kids! Quit stealing the services of the sports players and buy a damn ticket!”

    “Oh, and get off my lawn too!” 😁

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