Sunday School

[jakelafortParticipant]

Enco,

I had to look up pussy hat wearers. So i take it generically as feminists.
Yes the brave women who have survived Islamic hell cultures and tried to warn the west have been shunned by feminists. Can’t allow the values you supposedly cherish to get in the way of your religion. The women who KNOW Islam firsthand refer to lefties of their ilk as useful idiots.

They’re also shameless Jew haters which of course goes hand in hand with their sexual encounters with Islam and demonization of Israel. Jewish feminists are banned from their gatherings. Does not matter if the Jewish women had spewed the same anti-Israel propaganda. They’re Jews. But they’ll tell you it is the government of Israel we are against.

I have so little hope for humanity.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Reg,

I had forgotten that Natan Sharansky is still around and was pleased to read his words of wisdom.

Too many people on the Right will rightly condemn Hamas horrors on October 7, Iran’s Islamist terror and nuclear aspirations, Red China’s flexing of power, and Wokeism is the West, but mysteroiusly they have a blind spot about Putin’s Russia. Sharansky, by contrast, understands they are all interconnected.
.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Reg,

Who are you and where are your badges?

This is probably one of those stories where there are no heroes. Must investigate further…

Private security should be bound by the same restrictions as law enforcement officers. And town hall meetings should have speakers from the audience line up and each have a fixed set of time to say their piece in turns without interruption.

Still, I have to wonder if this woman would respect anyone else’s right to speak without a heckler’s veto.

As Paul Harvey always observed: “Self-Government requires self-restraint.”

 

• This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Repeating myself about redundancy
• This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by  Reg the Fronkey Farmer. Reason: I fixed up the text a little

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

I too had forgotten about Natan Sharansky.  It is good to read a different perspective, especially when it is from someone whose life experience gives it a weighting that basement pundits can never attain.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Re the badges video, what caught my attention first was that it looked like they were wearing black shirts.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Reg,

It’s never a good look for daylight, and only legitimate for night-ops. Not to mention just uncomfortable in the Summertime for good officers.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Lear’s business license has been revoked for violating city ordinances, which include a provision that requires security personnel uniforms be clearly and visibly marked with the word “Security,” Sergeant Reneau said.

[UnseenParticipant]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

Private security should be bound by the same restrictions as law enforcement officers.

No, they should be bound by the same restrictions as ordinary citizens, which they are. If they have legal grounds for a citizen’s arrest, swell. Otherwise, they were engaging in an assault. The hall was open to the public. Had attendance been by invitation and the event private, they could have called police to have her ejected. However, being vocal in public isn’t against the law under most circumstances.

And town hall meetings should have speakers from the audience line up and each have a fixed set of time to say their piece in turns without interruption.

Then they should be private events, not public. I see events handle questions that way in, for example, universities. However, unless events are private, I see no way of enforcing such an approach.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Unseen,

Not all jurisdictions allow for citizen’s arrest, which is why I said they should be bound by law enforcement strictures, especially if the private security agents are acting as agents of the Sheriff with search and seizure and arrest powers.

Then they should be private events, not public. I see events handle questions that way in, for example, universities. However, unless events are private, I see no way of enforcing such an approach.

I’ve seen public town hall and state university meetings handled in the way I specified and I see no problem with that, as it prevents the heckler’s veto from silencing someone else’s free expression. And the enforcement if it can’t be upheld should be that the meeting is cancelled.

• This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spelling
• This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spelling

[jakelafortParticipant]

Enco,

The response of the Blacks in Lincoln Heights is admirable. There is no place for pacifism when its Nazis, Muslim terrorists, vicious dictators or the like. So good on them for defending themselves. And in this case good to see they can carry firearms since the Nazis have firearms.

On the other hand the Nazis coming to terrorize the Blacks ought not be considered protected speech. As i’ve indicated constitutional rights involve balancing of interests. Speech is indeed a cherished value in USA and it is axiomatic that any nation that lacks free speech is a shithole country. Ain’t that what Trump said?

Lets get on the see-saw. The speakers. Who are they? What is the nature of their speech. They are new breed nazis. An ideology that should have been in the dust bin of history. But the rationale underlying so many advocates of free speech absolutism is that the free marketplace of ideas will weed out outstandingly bad ideas is a broken rationale. It takes virtually no reflection to realize that we humans are acted on by the unending bombardment of outstandingly bad ideas. We capitulate like a cheap suit at the feet of outstandingly bad and destructive ideas. The bad ideas control the masses. If the marketplace worked would we have no argument against war being dictated by a single individual or very few? Would we spend a good part of our lives in wish thinking/fear and ritualized obligations? Would good hearted people on the left be obsessed with evil Jews/Israel and ignore the innumerable human rights crises all over the world? No point belaboring my point. It is obvious.

Our friends the Nazis visited Lincoln Heights brandishing rifles and bearing nazi symbols and spewing racist shit and that was in front of kids leaving a school. To have a nation take a stand against Nazis and their ilk sends a very positive message. Having cops who permit the intimidation sends a bad message. Nazis beget more Nazis. Let them scream from the mountain top and they will have new Nazis climbing to join them. Just like intifada revolution bitches. If we don’t protect their speech what is lost? Nazis wont be as effective in promoting nazism. And a similar message will be broadcast to other hate groups. Nazis will be perceived as impotent and fringe. If you want full rights of a citizen you don’t have to be a model citizen but you ought not be threatening groups who have endured far too much from the unchecked speech you want to utilize.

Think also about the imposition on the lives of a minority group that has historically been hosed upside and continues to suffer discrimination. They have to carry arms? They have children who are frightened. Adults who are frightened. An accident waiting to happen as the residents are armed and interrogating newbies coming to their village. I say no fucking way. Fuck the nazis. And don’t give them speech in this manner. The see-saw flew in one direction and bounced on the ground in the other. Did you see that Nazi flying off the see-saw?

[_Robert_Participant]

Imagine the degree to which one has to be a fucking loser if you wake up in the morning in the US of A and wonder “what nazi-type things should I do today?

[UnseenParticipant]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

I’ve seen public town hall and state university meetings handled in the way I specified and I see no problem with that, as it prevents the heckler’s veto from silencing someone else’s free expression. And the enforcement if it can’t be upheld should be that the meeting is cancelled.

There laws against interfering with official proceedings as there should be, but the event in question was not a government proceeding, it was an unofficial proceeding not called for by statute no different from the same event held in a public place with the legislator standing on a soap box. It was a public forum.

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

To the folks at home just joining in, Jake and Robert are referring to this separate thread topic I posted:

atheistzone.com/groups/politics/forum/topic/when-hate-goes-beyond-mere-words-lincoln-heights-has-the-right-reply/

• This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Link
• This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Link
• This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Link

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Robert,

It’s like Tom Servo said on MST3K referring to the villian Kobras in The Pumaman:

“One of these days, the world will learn to stop letting idiots like this almost take it over!”

[TheEncogitationerParticipant]

Jake,

This was obviously more than a bunch of Schickelgruber Fan Club members gathering to say “I hate üntermenchen!“. They made armed threats, misused a rental truck, and littered in the course of their actions. There have also been violent acts from pro-Hamas protesters nationwide too:

Pro-Palestinian protestors attack Jews outside LA synagogue | WATCH
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/americas/artc-pro-palestinian-protestors-attack-jews-outside-la-synagogue-watch

Blockading a synagogue or any other gathering spot, blocking freedom of movevent on a thoroughfare, using a flag that doubles as a spear, and dragging an innocent child along for a dangerous crazy train ride are not legitimate peaceful acts of mere freedom of expression.

Furious clashes break out as pro-Palestinian demonstrators target Orthodox Jewish NYC neighborhood chanting ‘Zionist go to hell’
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14412645/clashes-pro-Palestinian-demonstrators-Orthodox-Jewish-neighborhood-Zionist.html

Blocking thoroughfares and threatening to ‘flood’ a neighborhood several years in the wake of hurricane damage in New York neighborhoods and threats of ‘intifada’ after several ‘intifdas’ with Israel since 1987 show a clear intent to inflict violence.

No civil libertarian to my knowledge calls any of that legitimate peaceful free expression.

And if mere expression of hate were outlawed, hatemongers would be camouflaged and the individuals and communities they target would be unprepared for incidents such as these.

The most important thing is to let hatemongers know that their expressions are for naught and the targets of their hatred aren’t going away with magic incantations like slurs.

• This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by  TheEncogitationer. Reason: Spelling

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