Sunday School

Sunday School January 6th 2019

This topic contains 38 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Simon Paynton 1 year, 6 months ago.

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    Faith on the Hill with the 116th Congress.

    The Cuddly One suggests most Christians would be better to live as atheists while on of his generals calls for the right to be able to discriminate against those that don’t believe as he does. Meanwhile Catholic bishops will pray to the Creator of the Universe about their abuse and rape of thousands of children over the last 100 years.

    On being an atheist in Egypt.

    The Trump administration and religious freedom concerns in China.

    Christian hypocrisy is alive and well.

    How RE teachers see religion and why it can be bad for pupils.

    An atheist who finds inspiration in the Bible. OK, but the Book of Job? Really?

    An apologist who wants us atheists to pick his arguments apart. To be fair we should also try to do the same to the arguments made by atheists.

    The 2018 Free Thought awards (several good articles linked within). If you would like to hear more controversial views (of course we do!) then there is always the Intellectual Dark Web.

    This weeks’ Woo: Magic can increase belief in pseudoscience.

    Climate Change: A simple explanation of Global Warming.

    The case for Scientific Humanism.

    Kindred spirits and life-long companions.

    Genetics and the history of early America.

    The 10 weirdest science stories of 2018.

    This week I am reading this book: Man’s search for Meaning.

    Some photographs taken last week.

    While you are waiting for the kettle to boil…..

    Coffee Break Video:  The anti-American dream. The problem of Free Will.


    Happy New Year and have a great week!



    re>Christian hypocrisy is alive and well.

    Quotes from Romero’s Sermon on the Pulse Orlando Shooting

    “These 50 sodomites are all perverts and pedophiles and they are the scum of the Earth and the Earth is a little bit better place now.”

    “There are several dozen of these queers in an ICU in intensive care … I will pray to God like I did this morning and I will do it tonight that God will finish the job,”




    Thanks for Sunday School Reg!

    Enjoyed reading the article on Genetics and the history of early America.

    After reading “A Peoples History of the United States” by Howard Zinn I looked up “Population of Native Americans in 1492”. Estimates range to about 50,000, 000 people spread out between North, Central, and South America. 80% of that population was eradicated by diseases brought here by Europeans and later by African slaves. The Comedian John Liguezamo has a comedy special on Netflix. I think it’s title was “Latino History for Morans”. He calls the European conquest of the New World “Our Holocaust”. By the time all was said and done and disease and atrocities were inflicted roughly 9 to 10 million Native Americans survived. The Church looked at it as less people to convert.

    If a country massacred 40 million people in this day and age how much outrage would there be? If the church looked on and said nothing?



    Thanks, Reg!


    Simon Paynton

    An apologist who wants us atheists to pick his arguments apart.

    – this is a very interesting article.  I think it must have been a sermon from the tone it uses.

    The author, David Kapelian, makes the interesting point that not everyone who has been through a terrible experience loses their “faith” (whatever that means) – for some people it is deepened.  Why is this?  He can’t exactly answer.

    Maybe it lies in whether a religious person has an intellectual or spiritual (redemptive, transformative) view of God.  Intellectually, the all-loving God is a nonsense.  Spiritually, the redemptive transformative God’s powers are real: the biological pressure to thrive and survive.


    ….loses their “faith” (whatever that means)….

    It is never a loss. In “The Shawshank Redemption”, the prisoner Andy Dufresne does not lose his captivity when he escapes from prison. He gained his freedom.

    Only theists consider “losing your faith” as some sort of tragedy. Freeing oneself from a supernatural delusion is to be commended….every time it happens that someone regains their Reason.



    Simon Paynton

    To be fair we should also try to do the same to the arguments made by atheists.

    – although it contains a lot of hyperbolic compliments of Sam Harris, I think this is a fair enough straightforward description of his career.  The author Douglas Murray is obviously a fan.


    although it contains a lot of hyperbolic compliments…

    Hyperbolic compliments are the best compliments in the whole wide world ever! They are just tremendous!


    Simon Paynton

    Christian hypocrisy is alive and well.

    – Pastor Donnie Romero, the hypocrite, just sounds like a horrible hateful person.  I wonder why he is like that.


    That’s an easy one to answer. When Christians are legally prevented from being allowed to discriminate they get annoyed. When it is pointed out to them that their Biblical Laws are not above the State or Constitutional Laws they play their persecution complex card. They understand laws, like the Religious Freedom Act to mean the “Religious Privilege Act”.


    Simon Paynton

    Maybe he was angry at himself for being a hypocrite.


    Simon Paynton

    Intellectually, the all-loving God is a nonsense.

    Maybe this is a simplistic view: anyone can see this, so maybe something different from the obvious is meant by “all-loving God”.



    Hey Reg: I don’t how you do it. You invite them into your home, offer them tea, even leave copies of the Watchtower and Bible out for them and then commence to hold these civil conversations with them. I would snap. I get you do it to get a deeper understanding of the warped mindset that goes along with theism. I keep going back to Gene Hackman’s character in the movie “The Birdcage”, when he finds out that his future in-laws are actually gay and his characters conservative response to that revelation is, “I feel like I’m going insane”.  As if one can feel the onset of insanity.

    That would me a few minutes into the conversation. I once told a JW that I was an atheist but thanks for thinking of me. She looked at her companions and slowly began to walk away with this look on her face as if I insulted her. I was all smiles. I kind of felt sorry for her. But then I fired up my Harley and giggled my ass off when all three of them jumped.


    I get you do it to get a deeper understanding of the warped mindset that goes along with theism…

    I think I have as deep an understanding of how religion screws with the mind as I ever will. The depth of the delusion depends on the level of indoctrination endured. Apologists for God will almost always claim that for the majority of people religion does no harm. It is only the fundamentalists that are deluded. Yet both ends of the faith spectrum believe the same core tenets of faith. Therefore they only differ in how the interpret the doctrine that comes with it. They all profess to believe they have a connection with the Creator of the Universe, in which this Creator God has an individual plan for them and is actively involved in the affair of humans. For believing such things they are to become immortals.

    Of course I see all this as utter nonsense. My main reason for debating with theists is not to understand their faith but to understand why they need to believe. Why, as adults, do they cling to it? I try to create enough doubt in their minds so that they will question their faith. I will help them to learn how to reason themselves away from their beliefs by showing them that having doubts is not something to fear.

    I have “hidden” ex-cult members in my home. I have helped ex-Muslims gain asylum. I have been involved in many campaigns against various churches when they try to hold back on human rights. I have helped parents by demanding schools stop preaching to their children. I have had grown men and women weep in my arms as they recanted tales of horror that befell them as children by various servants of god. One man once said I was the first person he told in over 55 years, almost as long as I have been on the planet. I have been told by a woman how she saw a nun murder a 6 year old child by banging her head against a wall for wetting the bed and that same woman told me of how she was raped by a priest in the presence of another nun when she was nine years old. The other times no nuns were present.

    Mostly I am an anti-theist. I despise the hypocrites and power mongers that pretend to have access to a source of knowledge not available to me. They are always in my sights.

    But when I help a theist to “see the light” and I hear them say “I am an atheist”, I feel very proud of them. The reward is all theirs. When I hear the JW or Mormon ringleader say that the ex-member “was never a true Christian in the first place”, I grin to myself; “That’s an interesting observation. Why do you think she (or he) was never a true Christian? Why do you think they no longer believe what you believe”? We should talk more about this. Would you like a cup of tea?

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