Steve Dustcircle

PopeBeanie wrote:

Unseen wrote:
How do you account for free will in a way that rescues the “free” part of free will and attaches it to the “will” part of free will without violating the scientific laws of the universe?

Absolutely. Nothing new here, not sure, did I misuse the word emergence? Free will couldn’t emerge, except as a theoretic…

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I see free will as a faculty, or cluster of related faculties, that emerges from the biological substrate of the living brain, in the same way that morality emerges as a number of related faculties from the physical reality of obligate collaboration driven by the biological pressure to reproduce and survive and thrive within a risky ecological niche.

jakelafort wrote:
I can’t get involved in philosophical issues regarding morality. It strikes me as a vacuous endeavor when juxtaposed against the real world. Consequentialist, deontological blah blah blah. I suppose it is okay if you are so inclined in terms of PERSONAL principles.

Some of us think that diagram should be taught in primary s…[Read more]

PopeBeanie wrote:
Can one just think of morality as an emergent thought process, with societal ramifications?

Morality emerges from collaboration.

There is a difference between “cause and effect” and hard determinism. A cause can have many different effects, but there has to be at least one. The idea that the position, motion and energy of every single particle through space-time is predetermined at time = 0+ of the big bang is not compatible with quantum theory.

And of course, causality is…[Read more]

Unseen wrote:
How do you account for free will in a way that rescues the “free” part of free will and attaches it to the “will” part of free will without violating the scientific laws of the universe?

Absolutely. Nothing new here, not sure, did I misuse the word emergence? Free will couldn’t emerge, except as a theoretical or philoso…[Read more]

“Emergence” is defined as a property of a whole not present in its parts. So, emergence is an epiphenomenon, like a rainbow or mirror reflection.

Notice that rainbows and mirror reflections are, in a sense, not real and are accounted for in terms of sufficient conditions.  Conditions describable deterministically

In other words, you can explain…[Read more]

Here it is:

(Verse 1)
Yo, it’s the tale of determinism, science in the rhythm,
Where every cause is linked, no room for schism.
The universe, a script, no freestyle decision,
Every action’s locked tight like a prison.

But wait, we flip the beat, science enters the scene,
It’s the methodical method, if you know what I mean.
Hypothesize, test,…[Read more]

Unseen wrote:
Where does responsibility and morality enter in? Beyond, of course, “You did it. You were not under duress. Therefore, you’re responsible for it.

Can one just think of morality as an emergent thought process, with societal ramifications? In particular, people stating moral beliefs can and do influence others, and one’s sel…[Read more]

Simon Paynton wrote:

_Robert_ wrote:
We can start with intelligence or hair color and work our way into musical preferences. Throw any of that data on a chart and you will have a bell curve.

What does that have to do with free choice and consciousness?

Everything. Everything about us including “free choice” is governed by a probability function.

Simon Paynton wrote:

Unseen wrote:
Nothing happens without sufficient conditions being met,

We think for a reason: to calculate what we have to do to achieve our goals, to thrive, survive and reproduce. There is therefore biological pressure to think. As for what direction this thinking takes, then within constraints and limits, and acted upon…

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I looked for more detail on the “breakthrough with desalinization article”. The source is https://news.mit.edu/2024/solar-powered-desalination-system-requires-no-extra-batteries-1008 .

The gist of it can be summarized as a much more efficient method of desalinization through “flexible batch electrodialysis”, with “flexible” meaning that the pro…[Read more]

Throw in the other religions too, every which one defining God, Allah, and so on in their own way, usually dictated by traditionally purported authorities. The sureness they have seems particularly dangerous to me, e.g. with upsurgence of Christian Nationalism. I don’t think I ever really knew what populism was until the past few years, much less…[Read more]

Unseen wrote:
Nothing happens without sufficient conditions being met,

We think for a reason: to calculate what we have to do to achieve our goals, to thrive, survive and reproduce.  There is therefore biological pressure to think.  As for what direction this thinking takes, then within constraints and limits, and acted upon by influences – i…[Read more]

Simon Paynton wrote:

Unseen wrote:
We can be and feel free on a surface level in the sense that we can do things we want to do or out of habit or whatever and not do them at gunpoint,

That is free will right there. On a day-to-day level, I exercise freedom of choice, restricted or guided by certain constraints, pushed in certain directions by…

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Yes, Belle Rose. So many Catholics….what could go wrong?? Why do they always close their eyes when they pray to the Creator of the Universe? It seems to put a strain on their faces too…..but that could be caused by the cognitive dissonance of it all.

Thanks, Reg!