jakelafort

jakelafort wrote:
As to why it is a bad idea…it would draw additional attention and scrutiny of the trans folks. It would be like a freak show.

I agree it could be, for a while at least. While as physically and mentally handicapped competitors now have regular events, maybe we could learn from how policies and measurements of “fairness” across d…[Read more]

jakelafort wrote:
First i would insist on scientific evidence that there is an advantage to those who transition from male to female in sports.

I get your hesitations and yet having a separate trans category and seeing what hajppens would be the most conclusive kind of research possible. People wouldn’t need an advanced degree to tell if trans…[Read more]

Simon Paynton wrote:
Trans men started off as women, and trans women started off as men. They seem like two very different athletic categories.

I guess I’ll have to help your imagination a little here. Of course, the proposed trans  category would maintain the male/female gender distinction. Trans males against trans males and trans women…[Read more]

jakelafort wrote:
Bad idea.

Worse than what we have now? I’m all ears.

Simon Paynton wrote:
Not all trans categories are a single category.

(I wasn’t finished editing my post before you responded… sorry.)

In any case, it could be left up to them (and those non-binaries, and so on in any other category) to come together and make those kinds of determinations themselves. With as much additional support from all…[Read more]

Simon Paynton wrote:
They seem like two very different athletic categories.

What Unseen first said didn’t hit me as obvious either, but I think that what you and Unseen say relate to my point:

Help make inter-trans (intra-trans?) competitions more common and popular, because trans people deserve to have them. I think that least some trans events…[Read more]

Simon Paynton wrote:

Unseen wrote:
It would soon become clear by comparing times between the body-modded and unmodeds whether the division made any sense and would put the controversy to bed finally for any fair-minded folks.

I’m not sure it makes logical sense.

If times are comparable such that the trans team wasn’t showing a  tendency of ac…[Read more]

PopeBeanie wrote:
It might be interesting to see how trans men and trans women would feel about competing with each other…

Good suggestion. It would soon become clear by comparing times between the body-modded and unmodeds whether the division made any sense and would put the controversy to bed finally for any fair-minded folks.

Maybe trans men and women could compete in their own category someday, even in (say) the Olympics. It might be interesting to see how trans men and trans women would feel about competing with each other, instead of (or in addition to) just competing with their own assigned gender-mates. It might be one way to discover whether or not the genes…[Read more]

@ Simon

Many assume that in ancient hunter-gatherer societies, men were the hunters and women were the gatherers. A new study reveals otherwise. Women were prominent hunters in prehistoric times. Historically, women’s roles have been skewed and diminished. Contemporary images of early humans show men with spears and women holding babies or p…

[Read more]

jakelafort wrote:
So if a man transitions to become a female that person has an advantage competing in sports against women?

Yes. Should i care?

That’s a good question. To a naturally-born female from a disadvantaged family who  wants to finance her education through a sports scholarship, she will care. As will any family with a sports-talented…[Read more]

@ Davis

Having looked at the article you referenced, it even notes the unfortunately small size of the samples. I can’t use a study like that to gainsay the experience Chelsea is having. She’s not talking about one day or one race but a trend she can’t fight.

One thing that needs to be addressed is the fact that “trans woman” covers a lot of…[Read more]

Simon Paynton wrote:

Unseen wrote:
Self-servingness is what it is and I hesitate to go so far as calling it sinister.

But you could say the same about any athlete. Do you mean, trans women athletes can seek to use their advantage knowing it’s unfair?

I know what sometimes lurks in the hearts of men (meaning mankind). Sure, so that’s exactly w…[Read more]

Review of literature showing there is no conclusive evidence transwomen on average have a competitive advantage:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5357259/

This article focusses on transgender youth sports, and the lack of evidence that there is an unfair advantage (at the youth level), the harm it causes, the insidious nature of…[Read more]

It took a while, but I found a video that demonstrates fairly clearly the skeletal difference that makes someone with a male body a better runner than someone with a female body. Females tend to be a bit knockkneed and males tend to be a bit bowlegged. It turns out that for putting power down on the pavement, you’re far better off being a bit…[Read more]

Simon Paynton wrote:

TheEncogitationer wrote:
2.) Prior to this, did anyone, of any gender, really give a damn about women’s sports? I don’t even here it come up in women’s conversations.

I think women might say something different. If it never came up in women’s conversations, that’s because it barely existed compared to how things are now,…

[Read more]

Simon Paynton wrote:
We have to be charitable and not ascribe ulterior motives to people.  We don’t know what their motives are.  Presumably, they want to play sports, and also, yay for trans people.

I would not presume to judge an individual trans athlete off the top of my head. However, from what I know about people in groups—and trans peopl…[Read more]

Simon Paynton wrote:
I think a “trans women” category would be fair to everyone.  I don’t see how it wouldn’t.  At the moment, biological women get wiped out, and trans women are forced into a conflict they don’t have to be in.

Something like that should be acceptable to fair-minded people. Unfortunately, that solution may be described b…[Read more]

I will have to admit my bias here. I am the father of a girl athlete. She’s well into her womanhood now, but she worked hard as a child and teen and ended up financing her own education by being accepted onto the University of Nevada swim team. Trans female athletes was not a “thing” then and having to compete against “women” still with largely…[Read more]

@ Davis

While I share your concern about prejudice against trans, and while I can put myself in the place of a trans woman who wants to believe that now she’s a real woman in every possible way, that just can’t be. She still has Y-chromesomes and much of her male anatomy, so it’s obvious that fairness is a real and urgent issue. Urgent because…[Read more]