Sunday School

Sunday School February 25th 2024

This topic contains 189 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  Simon Paynton 3 months, 4 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 121 through 135 (of 190 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #52923

    Unseen
    Participant

    Complete egalitarianism gives women freedom from patriarchy too, for the same reasons (mobility, independence from individuals, lack of power structures, etc.), and since men aren’t competing, there’s no need for patriarchy anyway.  These days, since patriarchy has returned with the dawn of “civilisation”, inequality, etc., the individual competition to dominate females has been handed over to societal cooperation.

    Where, outside academic echo chambers, are women crying out to be free from patriarchy? Free from feeling protected and provided for? I don’t see it.

    You are telling the rest, in typical “mainsplaining” fashion what they should think, feel, and do.

    My experience has been that for every hardcore anti-patriarchy feminist there’s a dozen or so softer “feminists” (so they say) who still like having doors opened for them, being wined and dined, being remembered with a card or, better, gift on Valentine’s Day, etc.

    To me, since being encouraged to think about it, patriarchy seems far more functional than matriarchy above a certain scale. Otherwise, there would be successful matriarchies to point to. This is not to say matriarchy fails in smaller scale organizations or communities.

    I’m not ignoring the notion of an egalitarian society. It just seems that in general we, most of us, men and women, feel at home in a patriarchy. Will an ardent feminist or Davis or Autumn feel that way? No. But that doesn’t mean I’m wrong.

    Scientists have found that we, men and women both, tend to prefer lower voices in our leaders.

    How Voice Pitch Influences Our Choice of Leaders

    The obvious implication is that we prefer to be led and governed by males.

    #52924

    jakelafort
    Participant

    Davis, if i did not know you and i credited you with being an intelligent guy i would be pretty sure you are goofing around.

    #52925

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    Where, outside academic echo chambers, are women crying out to be free from patriarchy? Free from feeling protected and provided for? I don’t see it.

    It’s all over women’s media like women’s magazines.

    Your argument reminds me of a book about Islam I read, by a (male) Islamic scholar.  He says that women like staying indoors, and not being able to go out, so “that takes care of the accusation that Islam represses women”.

    #52926

    _Robert_
    Participant

    Davis, if i did not know you and i credited you with being an intelligent guy i would be pretty sure you are goofing around.

    Yeah, let’s just mischaracterize everything written, shall we? Apparently, the main focus of Western society is a giant conspiracy to enable the raping our beloved women, our mothers, sisters and daughters. This is the kind of narrative that subconsciously drives people away from classic liberalism. And ironically, the same people who say we have a rape culture are the one who are against imprisoning and separating known rapists from women and who are in favor of allowing former males with penises into female only spaces. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. They also enjoy depicting females as being physically strong in movies, who can kick the living shit out of a dozen bad white hetero males without breaking a nail. You go girl. And eat up girl. You can be 400 pounds AND a be healthy cover girl. Wup Wup. And all the while defending disgusting Islamic ideology. Pathetic.

    #52927

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    Free from feeling protected and provided for? I don’t see it.

    It’s true that in the classical evolutionary great ape patriarchy model, females are protected and cared for by the alpha male.  But biologically, this is for the purpose of keeping them safe for reproduction.  It comes as part of the package of the classical model.

    Women are physically a bit more vulnerable than men, especially to violence by men, that doesn’t even serve a worthwhile purpose.  So, even in an egalitarian world, it’s the ethical thing to do for men to use kid gloves.

    #52928

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    It comes as part of the package of the classical model.

    Also, (the hypothesis is that) that is what monogamous egalitarian pair-bonding is for: for the man to help the woman raise children.

    #52929

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Simon,

    Apropos of something, the hottest sauce at Taco Bell is, after all, called “Fire.”
    🥵

    #52930

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Reg,

    Sinead O’Connor didn’t deserve the abuse she got, but she was a Flying Fish who went from the frying pan of Catholicism into the fire of Islam. Like Camille Paglia is, Sinead was a bag of mixed nuts.

    #52931

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Davis,

    Don’t get too down. I doubt any of us here are the bad guys and the very ones needing the lecture are the very ones who can’t be reached anyway.

    Just a note in passing: Armed citizens are statistically and actually more able and more willing to help fellow citizens victimized by crime.

    #52932

    Then this rubbish is being taken seriously.

     

    #52933

    jakelafort
    Participant

    That’s worse than the syntax. And that is saying something.

    #52935

    Unseen
    Participant

    It’s true that in the classical evolutionary great ape patriarchy model, females are protected and cared for by the alpha male.  But biologically, this is for the purpose of keeping them safe for reproduction.  It comes as part of the package of the classical model.

    Women are physically a bit more vulnerable than men, especially to violence by men, that doesn’t even serve a worthwhile purpose.  So, even in an egalitarian world, it’s the ethical thing to do for men to use kid gloves.

    OMG! I just realized that you’re misandrist. Really, Simon, reread what you wrote! You despite the male gender. Imagine if you talked that way about women or blacks or gays.

    #52936

    Unseen
    Participant

    Your argument reminds me of a book about Islam I read, by a (male) Islamic scholar.  He says that women like staying indoors, and not being able to go out, so “that takes care of the accusation that Islam represses women”.

    Your arguments remind me of a guy interpreting shadows in Socrates’ famous cave.

    You claim not to believe that men conspire to keep women subjugated and yet clearly you do, even if you’re deluding yourself in doing so.

    #52939

    Simon Paynton
    Participant

    Then this rubbish is being taken seriously.

    It goes against the ethics of care.  A man would presumably help another man who was in a difficult situation.

    To buy a woman all her drinks or an expensive dinner puts her under an obligation.  She might prefer to pay for them herself to avoid that.

    #52940

    TheEncogitationer
    Participant

    Reg and Simon,

    Myself, I always make room, clear the way, give wide berth, and open doors for anyone with a load, regardless of sex, and offer to help lift if needed (certainly as part of my retail job, but also as a random stranger.)

    However, if someone makes a snit about my generosity, there is no crime in the schadenfreude of pointing and laughing as they fumble with luggage in a turnstile. 😁

    Sometimes absence of empathy is what it takes to make the heart grow fonder for it.

    Now, as for the Philadelphia story of the woman raped on the subway mentioned in the video, or the more well-known case of Kitty Genovese in New York City, you’ll notice these happened in gun-controlled metropolises
    that are also unfriendly to private automobiles and where nothing can go wrong. /Sarcasm

Viewing 15 posts - 121 through 135 (of 190 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.