Sunday School

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_Robert_ wrote:

The source of the religion is clear and concise on male homosexuality. I do not understand how any gay man can walk around with that book tucked under their arm. Yet there are many who use that same book to defend gay rights. There is an all accepting Methodist church near here that is so proud of themselves for all the cherry-picking they do.

Christians attempting to reconcile scripture and theology with the world around them is something I find too depressing to really dwell on. There are some things I can understand writing off as scripture stating what the people of the times needed to hear. Some of the prohibitions around food might have arisen to reduce the risk of food-borne illness, for instance. Some of the theology might have been figurative to help make sense of the world.

But in this case it’s not like the scripture reads “Pop out a few kids to bolster the tribe’s population before you bro down with your beau my gay dude.” As you’ve quoted, it calls for the death penalty, and people have been slain over this. The New Testament, arguably, is less favourable to killing gay people, but it never really gets further than ‘hate the sin not the sinner’ kind of bullshit, which is still quite homophobic even if it allows for easier coexistence.

That said, for people pushed to the margins of society, finding community and feeling you have a place in life is often quite challenging. We are social creatures, even the introverts. Validation and acceptance matter more than people realize. It’s survival: a pariah has shittier odds. It’s one thing to choose to step outside the lines on your own terms; it’s another to have that choice made for you because of an involuntary and unalterable trait. I kind of get why preserving faith can take priority even if it requires some degree of internalized homophobia.

I think for Muslims in particular in places like Canada and the US, the pressure increases. Many people who are second generation have their feet in two worlds—a community at their roots which is in many ways culturally isolated—, and their existence as someone often born and raised here. Being gay on top of that means choices on how to live and be open and reconcile faith and identity have a lot more weight to them.

And I suppose there are those that are just true believers. Maybe for some of them they just don’t experience cognitive dissonance and believe their faith truly is compatible despite scripture and a long history of bigotry. I don’t see how those things are compatible, myself, but that’s not my job when it comes to someone else’s life.

[Davis]

Enco, you seem to easily get triggered by people who are easily triggered. Why don’t you try to not get so easily triggered by these things and recognise there will always be a minority of people who misuse and abuse shit, just as there are libertarians who go ape-shit over things like highly reasonable parking tickets and declare such tickets a war on freedom and liberty. This stuff doesn’t trigger me. I am aware there are nuts in all parts of society.

You’re just drudging this up to denigrate a larger sphere of non-outrageous behaviour like social justice advocacy which is useful. Being aware of actual serious trauma, being more sensitive to doing and saying shit that makes life a lot more difficult for marginalised people and making even small efforts to make life easier for others is not a bad thing. Using stupid snarl words like SJW reveals your contempt for people who care about the suffering of others and want to make life more bearable for some.

[jakelafort]

Recently had a friend come to me for advice. She is single mom of two daughters. One of the daughters recently told her mom she has been depressed for a while and is suicidal.

Next my friend reveals that her daughter has a gf and that as a result of her Catholic upbringing she is not cool with homosexuality and even if she is not usually explicit or outspoken her attitude of disdain is felt by her daughter.

So of course it leads me to anti-Christian tirade how belief promotes the ugliest behavior and greatest harm. I told my friend to go to her daughter and apologize earnestly, to admit that she is wrong and that she fully accepts her daughter and loves her unconditionally-that her contentedness is all that counts.

She did so. The daughter broke down and was super emotional but in no time her suicidal ideation is a thing of the past and depression has lifted like morning fog over a quiet lake. Just one insiginificant anecdote that weighs so heavily in the lives of a mother and daughter. The harms caused by belief just keep on spewing like a perpetual well.

So yeah reconciling belief with targeted hate groups in the bible has to be difficult. Although it is also true that there is so much contradiction that one can use various passages to focus on and override the distasteful passages. And then for some i assume there is a happy unhappiness in being a sinner and needing redemption.

[—]

While reddit is not a reliable source, the poster has added some evidence that the woman claiming to have Huntington’s disease is a known fraudster.

Before getting in a tizzy over it, perhaps check to see if the story actually adds up in the first place.

The AirBnB story is a hoax, committed by a serial fraudster. Receipts: from ireland

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jakelafort wrote:

Just one insiginificant anecdote that weighs so heavily in the lives of a mother and daughter. The harms caused by belief just keep on spewing like a perpetual well.

Many people can’t really understand the pathology of it if they haven’t been through something similar. I’m glad the story had a happy ending. Unfortunately, your friend’s daughter’s brain has probably programmed some pretty messed up thought patters that unfortunately can linger for decades. Even after we rationally move on, our brains don’t necessarily ditch certain emotional cues as readily.

Hopefully that doesn’t turn out to be the case. I’ve just known many cases (myself included) where it is.

[_Robert_]

Wonderful pitbulls and babies* in the news again. What could possibly go wrong?

*as in dead babies

[Unseen]

Regarding We don’t want your Catholic god in charge of our healthcare. Under my Medicare Part C (Medicare Advantage Plan), which is run by a local healthcare network backed by The Cuddly One’s riches, I’m better off going to one of their hospitals than to the local Christopher Hitchens Memorial Hospital basically because there isn’t one.

Another good thing, I believe, is that should I be unable to handle a medical expense, they’ll have charitable funding to help people overwhelmed by their medical expenses. Again, this is some of the Cuddly One’s money. They are probably more likely than even a government-funded hospital to simply forgive an unrecoverable expense rather than chasing someone down with dogged debt collectors.

My main objection to all religions is that they simply are not true. The do some harm but they also can do good. There are aspects of Christianity I appreciate, though it depends a lot on which Christians we are talking about. The ones who take The Good Samaritan more to heart than the ones who take a couple passages that didn’t age well as an excuse to harass or destroy the gays.

[Simon Paynton]

_Robert_ wrote:

OT Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

NT Romans 1:27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

It’s a bit of a mystery why the Abrahamic religions hate on homosexuality so much.  Why do they feel so threatened by it?  Why should they give a shit?

I think the male-female pair-bond has been fetishised and made sacred, together with a patriarchal belief that the clearly superior men shouldn’t act like the hated and despised women.  Also, given the prevalence of natural bisexuality in the human race, there was a lot of denial, self-loathing, and projected hatred going on.

I once outed a gay Christian (or rather, made him realise he was gay) on the William Lane Craig Reasonable Faith Facebook page.  I was nice to him.  I felt sorry for him.

[Simon Paynton]

Reg the Fronkey Farmer wrote:

Survival of the fittest versus compassion and cooperation in evolutionary theory and politics.

Robert Trivers’ theory states that the human race learnt its altruistic instincts through tit-for-tat reciprocity: I give to you, you pay me back in the future.  This sounds plausible until you examine it in the ecological round.  If I give to you, where is your incentive to pay me back?  Why not just take and not give back?  Who wants to make the first move?

Michael Tomasello’s interdependence theory makes a lot more sense.  In this theory, I help you, not because you are going to return the favour, but because you help me just by existing.  Our goals are the same (surviving and thriving together): your goal is my goal.  There is no danger of anyone defecting, because it’s not in their interests.

Trivers’ example of the cleaner fish could be seen as tit-for-tat but is also symbiotic interdependence.  The big fish helps the little one by having dirty teeth and not eating him; the little fish helps the big one by cleaning.  Each helps the other by just existing and doing what it does to get through life.

[Reg the Fronkey Farmer]

God already knows what you are going to ask him for. He just wants to see you on your knees and hear you beg for it.

[TheEncogitationer]

Autumn,

I didn’t see the part of the story on Reiki and Aromatherapy, but that by itself would’t make the story false. There are plenty of womenfolk who want to get in with Gwynneth Paltrow’s Goop Set, but don’t have the cash, so they’d have every reason to frivolously sue somebody for it.

But even granting that the story is false, which I’ll concede, the story would have had no legs at all if there weren’t people who think Feelz come before Realz, who think they are entitled to the livelihood of others, and who are willing to use out-of-control litigation and regulation to get it.

All this correction means is that we sic the shallelegh-warlords on Ms. Cookes instead.

[TheEncogitationer]

Davis,

I fully budget for nuttery of all kinds, but when nuttery combines with what is called Lawfare, something that can easily destroy livelihoods and lives, it is my equivalent of the rustling in the Veldt.

This time, it was just the wind going in a different direction and the threat wasn’t what it seemed. Next time? Who knows?

One day, there will be another “It Is Not Acceptable,” namely, “It is not acceptable to use courts of law or regulatory bodies to take the livelihoods and lives of peaceful, honest, productive people.”

[—]

TheEncogitationer wrote:

Autumn, I didn’t see the part of the story on Reiki and Aromatherapy, but that by itself would’t make the story false.

The story strained credibility in the first place which makes it worth checking before reacting. It was a story that was not impossible, yet not plausible.

It sounds a lot like you put ‘Feelz’ before ‘Realz’ when you posted this story, then used that mistake to somehow lend credulity to the (likely) false narrative.

[_Robert_]

Unseen wrote:

Regarding We don’t want your Catholic god in charge of our healthcare. Under my Medicare Part C (Medicare Advantage Plan), which is run by a local healthcare network backed by The Cuddly One’s riches, I’m better off going to one of their hospitals than to the local Christopher Hitchens Memorial Hospital basically because there isn’t one. Another good thing, I believe, is that should I be unable to handle a medical expense, they’ll have charitable funding to help people overwhelmed by their medical expenses. Again, this is some of the Cuddly One’s money. They are probably more likely than even a government-funded hospital to simply forgive an unrecoverable expense rather than chasing someone down with dogged debt collectors. My main objection to all religions is that they simply are not true. The do some harm but they also can do good. There are aspects of Christianity I appreciate, though it depends a lot on which Christians we are talking about. The ones who take The Good Samaritan more to heart than the ones who take a couple passages that didn’t age well as an excuse to harass or destroy the gays.

I am still a few years out, but the majority of guidance suggest avoiding Medicare Advantage and going with Medicare Supplement. A Supplement may cost more each month but when you get really ill, that’s when they are much better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv8Wzey-rII

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrkbOjBtBsw

[Unseen]

_Robert_ wrote:

I am still a few years out, but the majority of guidance suggest avoiding Medicare Advantage and going with Medicare Supplement. A Supplement may cost more each month but when you get really ill, that’s when they are much better.

Here’s the other side of the story:

I’m a type 2 diabetic. I use Humulin Insulin R and Humulin Insulin N. A Google search found an article with a table of prices for the various types of insulin listing average retail prices of a 100 unit vial of each at around $185. I use about three vials of R and two vials of N a month, so five vials at $185 would cost me $925 a month, and some people who don’t have insurance for whatever reason have to pay that or use dangerous strategies like using pet insulin or underusing the insulin they can afford or robbing drug stores in the dead of night.

The wacky thing is that, with my Medicare Advantage Plan from Providence, my cost for five vials is only $5.56, so I pay around $920 less than the uninsured person. You think I’m kidding? I’m showing you a recent shipment of Humulin Insulin R for which I was charged $10. And since it comes basically overnight packed in ice packets, that $10 may not even cover the cost of the postage.

I’ll have to check, but I don’t think I can get this kind of price break by just signing up for Part D (Rx drug program) without the rest of the money Providence gets from Part C.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by Unseen.

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