Sunday School

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

_Robert_ wrote:

Ah, OK. A religion is a race now.

Religion is not a race, and therefore you’re not being racist.  But it’s the same thing, to tar a whole group with the same negative brush.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

But it’s the same thing, to tar a whole group with the same negative brush.

Scientifically speaking, there is only one human race: Homo sapiens. The concept of different “races” is a social construct, not a biological one. We share more than 99.9% of the same DNA. Any physical differences are superficial and not indicative of any fundamental biological distinctions between groups of people.

When I accuse people who remain loyal to the Catholic Church to be supporters of child abuse, I do so because they are. At a very minimum they are tacitly condoning the behavior of crimes against children. To hell with trying to reform this church. Any decent human being would tear up their membership card and throw their tacky shoes at the altar on the way out the door. Then the Church would disintegrate and its lands and properties sold to compensate the thousands of its victims around the planet of this one race of ours . But religious people are sheeeple. Too indoctrinated or fearful or just incapable of rebelling.

Swap out the term Catholic Church above and insert the word Islam. The only difference is that Islam is now where Christianity was 500 years ago.

If a Muslim is a hard working citizen and does no harm to others I am not going to give him a medal. I won’t ever hear him say, “Those atheists in my neighborhood are all decent hardworking people”. He also is implicitly complicit in allowing the same crimes against humanity do be carried out in the name of his imaginary god, who looks the same as the Catholics imaginary god, when you look at a picture of them side by side on any blank sheet of paper.

But their religion is so insidiously tied to their culture and identity that when they get to live in a secular democracy, they want to infect the rest of us with the same shit they are too afraid to wipe off their own shoes because they think it smells of roses and tastes of paradise. Now its time to wake up and smell the tar.

 

 

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

@jakelafort – Reg, do you think most of the deconverted are happy to have had their world view challenged and deconstructed?

In the long run, yes.  When Andy Dufresne escaped from Shawshank prison, he may have missed the social life he had with his friends inside but he never thought that returning to jail would be a solution. Returning voluntary was never a consideration.

Whatever the faith belief, once someone stops holding on to it, it is gone. They may not be immediately happy about their new sense of freedom because they often have a sense of trepidation about the future and some degree of guilt. But over a period of time and after gaining an insight into the false reality they existed in, they learn to embrace life with a zeal that can make my eyes well up. Their enthusiasm for life is infectious and their sheer joy in discovering it makes all my conversations worthwhile. I guess happy is too mild a word to describe it but you know what I mean 🙂

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Reg the Fronkey Farmer wrote:

Scientifically speaking, there is only one human race: Homo sapiens. The concept of different “races” is a social construct, not a biological one.

The different ethnic groups look different and are different colours.  But I agree, those are superficial differences.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Simon, your words follow.

Religion is not a race, and therefore you’re not being racist. But it’s the same thing, to tar a whole group with the same negative brush.

So to use my example of a discrete cult of 900 in an enclave that is almost identical in its practices, belief and doctrine to Islam. And suppose Robert is describing the doctrine, belief and practices of that tiny cult. Is he tarring all 900 members of the cult? Or is he exposing the cult for what it is in simply describing it?

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

jakelafort wrote:

Robert is describing the doctrine, belief and practices of that tiny cult. Is he tarring all 900 members of the cult? Or is he exposing the cult for what it is in simply describing it?

You can say that a cult has x, y and z doctrines, beliefs and practices.  But you can’t say that all the people in it are the same.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Simon, but that is what cults do!

They turn people into robots. Cults dehumanize and eradicate individuality. Cultists behave in reprehensible ways that would never occur in the absence of the cult. When cultist deviate from the clearly defined norms they risk severe punishment up to and including execution.

So obviously this is about islamophobia. If we accept the following as true then is it more important to criticize Islam or risk being called an islamophobe?

At the end of the 1970s, Iranian fundamentalists invented the term “Islamophobia” formed in analogy to “xenophobia”. The aim of this word was to declare Islam inviolate. Whoever crosses this border is deemed a racist. This term, which is worthy of totalitarian propaganda, is deliberately unspecific about whether it refers to a religion, a belief system or its faithful adherents around the world.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

jakelafort wrote:

islamophobia

I don’t know what it’s like in the US, but in the UK we have quite a lot of Muslims.  Some right wing people are forever going on about Muslims this and Muslims that.  Muslims are going to take over.  Muslims are going to declare Sharia Law.  Muslims are a bunch of evil freaks.  I hate Muslims.  That is Islamophobia.  It’s a real thing.

Islam has plenty to legimitately be criticised for, and that’s not Islamophobia.  It’s criticism of a religion.  I am sure that the term is used disingenuously by the usual disingenuous religious people.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

One of the stated tenets of Atheist Ireland is “You have Rights, your beliefs do not”.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Simon, does not seem like the reaction to Muslims in UK is racist or xenophobic. Groups patroling to impose Islamic norms on nonmuslims like East London. And i believe other parts of Europe as well. Correct me if i am wrong.

And just a storm or Rapists. I just did quick search and saw the story about Rotherham and i pulled this quote…1400 white girls were abused, raped and murdered by Muslim gangs over a period of years. Many of these incidents are gang rapes. And all the whitewashing of Muslim crimes for fear of being accused of racism? Yeah no thanks. I am glad USA did not allow a massive wave of Muslims.

ttps://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2015-003081_EN.html

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

jakelafort wrote:

Simon, does not seem like the reaction to Muslims in UK is racist or xenophobic.

It’s a right wing trope – “we hate Muslims”.  Draw your own conclusions.

The abuse of vulnerable girls seems to be disproportionately done by Muslims, it’s true.  Although, everyone and his dog seems to be at them, because they’re vulnerable girls.  That is a very common problem.

The groups of Muslims patrolling the streets is a myth although it has been documented once or twice.  In other words, it’s not a common problem.

All in all the Muslims in the UK get on with everyone else fine.  It’s the right wing who have problems.  The “whitewashing” isn’t really a thing.

[_Robert_Participant]

Simon Paynton wrote:

jakelafort wrote:

Simon, does not seem like the reaction to Muslims in UK is racist or xenophobic.

It’s a right wing trope – “we hate Muslims”. Draw your own conclusions. The abuse of vulnerable girls seems to be disproportionately done by Muslims, it’s true. Although, everyone and his dog seems to be at them, because they’re vulnerable girls. That is a very common problem. The groups of Muslims patrolling the streets is a myth although it has been documented once or twice. In other words, it’s not a common problem. All in all the Muslims in the UK get on with everyone else fine. It’s the right wing who have problems. The “whitewashing” isn’t really a thing.

On one short stay in London when I was around 50 years old, I was harassed by a gang of 5 angry Muslim teens. It seemed to me they were jealous that I had a very pretty girlfriend and had just stepped out of a wine shop with some bottles. They followed us for 3 blocks and were very insulting and talking shit in Arabic. Of course, they didn’t get too close to us as they knew I had two bottles for at least two of their potentially crushed skulls.

And we can look at real crime data as well. 6.5% of the population accounts for 18.1% of the prison population. So almost three times the crime rate.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_prison_population#:~:text=and%20Wales%20only-,Religious%20group,a%20significant%20change%20in%20proportion

And of course, I do agree we should not lose our heads over Jihadism.

[jakelafortParticipant]

I started to read without finishing Ayaan Hirsi Ali on Migration, Islam and Women as Prey. It gets boring after a while. I got the message after so many stats. The Muslim immigrants are raping disproportionately to their numbers. They think of nonmuslims as garbage and it gives them an excuse to do their dirty work with a sense of impunity. They endanger so many women.

Islam is a cult that engenders tremendous intolerance. All the years before the establishment of Israel Jews were all over the middle east. They were second class citizens at best. Special taxes and special low life status under Islam. Humiliation was served up early and often. There were pogroms as well and also before 1948. Same was true for Christians and any minorities in Islamic lands. Just a little extra special for Jews.

When you think about how left Scandinavian nations are and how hard right they are turning along with the rest of Europe it only makes sense. It was always a big mistake to be so indebted to cultists in thinking they would be like other immigrants escaping some kind of persecution and want to assimilate.

There is no making up for white guilt that way.

You may think i sound like a right wing racist. But i am not villifying individual muslims. That is not how i see the world. If i posited free will and credited individual Muslims with their values damn sure i would hate Muslims and everything they stand for. However all i ever see is that metaphor of the river and how easily led humans are. THE EVIL IS THE VIRUS.

Ya know i get what Reg means and it is persuasive in a sort of legalistic way. On other hand what i think needs to be exposed is the dominant role of human nature in power dynamics and in adoption of beliefs. The progressives with their simplistic narratives about good guys/bad guys, oppressors and oppressed are doing a disservice to humanistic objectives.

They are openly antagonistic to Israel and by extension the collective Jew with their BS narratives that project western sins onto them while they look the other way at their so called oppressed Muslim nations. They are propagating antisemitism the world over in a new spin cycle but only rehashing old scapegoating.

Progressives are turning a spotlight so bright on the Palestinian/Israeli conflict that horror shows all over the globe get little coverage and awareness. This is great for actual oppressors.

Instead of focusing on how universal human nature is and endeavoring to portray humans the world over as one big group they cause more and more division. We should be working together to end poverty, increase education, stop wars, fight climate change. But hell no! Just a bunch of BS from faux academics.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Well, it’s a mixed bag.  On the one hand it can be paranoid, aggressive and arrogant, responsible for the very worst that humans can do.  On the other, it’s a beacon of light.

what i think needs to be exposed is the dominant role of human nature in power dynamics and in adoption of beliefs.

Yes, why does it bring out the worst in people as well as the best?  Maybe because it’s based, at least partially, on bullshit.  That’s enforced too hard.

[UnseenParticipant]

_Robert_ wrote:

And we can look at real crime data as well. 6.5% of the population accounts for 18.1% of the prison population. So almost three times the crime rate.

So, in Great Britain Muslims (who, let’s face it, face prejudices there) constitute a percent of prison population 2.78 times greater than their percentage of general population.

Here, in the U.S. blacks (who also face prejudice) constitute a percent of prison population 2.3 times greater than their percentage of general population.

What in your view should be done in each case?

Also, that video is both prejudicial and beside the point.

 

• This reply was modified 2 weeks, 1 day ago by  Unseen.

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