Sunday School

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Sinners are putting the Ten Commandments on their front lawns in case they forget them.

Ram Rahim brings 400 people closer to god plus a look at some other crazy cults from around the world. There are no shortage of modern day Messiahs for the gullible to believe in. It has only taken 500 years for the cults in Europe that became religions to accept each other.

The Secretary of State for Texas asked Quebec for prayers rather than equipment to combat the recent flooding.

This is a good article on the Religious Right and political power under President Trump.

150 Evangelical Christians promote discrimination because the Bible says so but not all Christians agree with the “Nashville Statement”.

God is making some reverends worried about “the homosexual agenda” get all wet. Not everyone has stockpiled enough riches here on Earth to build their own ark.

This weeks’ Woo: The FDA is stemming the growth of unproven stem cell treatments.

Spinoza, one of the important early torch bearers of the Enlightenment.

Climate Change: You won’t see the boot coming when your head is buried in the sand.

Blasphemy Laws are on the books in one third of nations.

Can monkeys see the face of Jesus in their toast?

Could a footprint suggest human-like creatures lived in Crete nearly 6m years ago?

381 new species discovered in the Amazon in two years.

Ten things we did not know last week. Some photographs taken last week.

I think I will reread The Kite Runner soon. It is also a great film.

While you are waiting for the kettle to boil…..

Coffee Break Video: A Ted Talk by an escapee from North Korea. Daniel Dennett reverse-engineering religion. Say a quick hello to Tracie Harris.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Have a great week everyone!!

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.

Carl Sagan.

[StregaModerator]

Thanks, Reg!

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

The article about the Nashville Statement is interesting.  I have to say, even though I disagree with its sentiments, the Nashville Statement is mostly correct, in that Christianity is traditionally, firmly, anti-gay, and there’s not much anyone can say about that.

However, like the article points out, the weakness of the Nashville Statement is to equate “tradition” with “godliness”.  That is just bollocks.  So, it is sensible, and “godly”, to “affirm” that it is necessary to change and adapt with the changing times.

If the evangelicals want to focus on how to strengthen the family, in general – that is a worthwhile thing to do.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

That’s a brilliant article about Spinoza.  The author makes it all very clear.  Spinoza makes a very clear and coherent case for freedom of speech.

[Dang MartinParticipant]

When one considers the context of the times, and how horrible life was, the anti-gay sentiments in the bible make sense, as well as the rules about “not spilling your seed.”

Disease and other issues were knocking down humans, almost faster than they could reproduce. Nature was a force to be reckoned with. There was no knowledge of bacteria or viruses. There were no pharmaceuticals. Clean water was probably touch-and-go.

It’s as if there were no gods watching over anyone, and they had to have rules in place in order for their tribes to survive.

Neither gay activity nor masturbation would result in offspring. If you weren’t procreating, then you were not contributing the one thing that society needed more than anything else back then. It was a numbers game, and nature was winning.

Of course, NOW we no longer need everyone to be procreating. We’ve got “death control” in a relatively good place, where women and children are not dying in child birth, and most children live to grow up and have children of their own [in certain areas].

Masturbation and other non-reproductive activities are no longer a threat to the continuation of Mankind.

Thanks to advances in psychology, we have an understanding that sexual activity for humans transcends the basic need for reproduction. We now know that it can result in a greater bond and sense of trust between two people. It’s good for psychological health. It’s good for prostate health [as is masturbation]. In short, sex in humans is a rather complex thing that does more than just make babies.

With all of these advances in society, it becomes clear that the rules set forth in the bible, as well as the social attitudes it generates, are extremely outdated and no longer useful.

Quite possibly, it was a good rule book for certain societies in the past. There is a price to be paid for clinging to tightly to the past, while ignoring the present and the future.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

“Neither gay activity nor masturbation would result in offspring. If you weren’t procreating, then you were not contributing the one thing that society needed more than anything else back then. It was a numbers game, and nature was winning.”

– I’m not sure.  That probably comes into it.  I understand that the Jewish and Catholic doctrines are all about producing more Jews and Catholics.

However, the prejudice against homosexuality is so widespread, and deeply psychological, that I think it must have deeper evolutionary roots.

If you think about it, gay sex, or masturbation, don’t prevent babies from being born, and they don’t harm anyone.  On the contrary, they’re both a natural part of the “fun” repertoire of the animal kingdom.  I would have thought that the survival status of wild animals, and of 0 AD human beings, is roughly comparable, given their respective niches.

I think it’s more a product of two things:

1) monogamous pair-bonding for the purpose of producing children, which is thought, in turn, to be a result of the invention of stone tools (i.e. lethal weapons), and this levelled the playing field between competitive males, so each male now had equal ability to control females, leading to 1 female for 1 male.  This development occurred at the beginning of the genus Homo – the first primate species where the males and females are approximately the same size, because there is relatively little sexual selection for large powerful males.

2) the instability of this monogamous situation, leading to an intense need to defend it as the only reproductive option on the table.  This intense need to defend it is, possibly, where the human race gets its peculiar sexual morality from.  It’s amplified by our gender politics: passing wealth down the family line, and using women as political currency, for example when a princess is married off to a foreign king for political reasons.

We can see that in some parts of the world, there is polygamy, where 1 male “controls” (yes) multiple females.  We can also see that across much of the world, and history, homosexuality and masturbation are seen as fine and normal.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

It’s true that in other primate species, those males who are mating continually have to defend “their” females from being “stolen” by other males.  So the defending is a matter of brute force and fighting ability.

But in humans, we can’t do things this way, so much.  So the defending has to be through other means.  Accordingly, for evangelicals, the only acceptable kind of sex is within marriage.  All other forms are just Wrong.  Why is that again?  Because God said so …

[.Spectator]

Thank you Reg!!! OMG it’s September!!! Time for the “Ber” months lol….

[DavisModerator]

Dang Martin wrote:

the anti-gay sentiments in the bible make sense, as well as the rules about “not spilling your seed.”

No they don’t. For two reasons. An out of control birthrate, especially in an area with limited resources or with a large disparity between wealthy and poor is NOT a good thing at all. Non reproductive sex is a GOOD thing in some cases.

Second, homosexual people who cannot produce or don’t adopt still help pass on their own genes by caring for relatives. For example, if one animal or human helps take care of two children of their brother or sister (or the more difficult task of caring for four of your cousins’ children) they are virtually ensuring that an animal passes on the same 50% of their genes (as would happen with normal reproductive sex) as your brothers and sisters are likely to share much of your own genes (two of their children pass on as many genes as one of your own). You find that all over in nature, family members caring for relatives and ensuring they survive to pass on genes. And you even find strong relationships between LGTB aunts and uncles with their nieces and nephews.

Non reproductive sex is not a bad thing per human development and not necessarily a bad thing for passing on your genes. Strange, bizarre and destructive obsessions over controlling all things sexual is found throughout ALL cultures with their strange and bizarre explanations of things and the grotesque rituals that come from them (which are hard to change). Rarely because they are “good for us”.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 6 months ago by  Davis.

[_Robert_Participant]

RE:Ram Rahim brings 400 people closer to god….

So 400 great thinkers cut of their balls (that’s close to 800 nuts, probably) because a rapist guru told them it would bring them closer to god.

I really need to start a church. I’d be rich in no time. Tax free rich. It’s not a even matter of intelligence, really. Plenty of smart otherwise rational people loose their shit when it comes to  wanting and needing a celestial authority. It’s a matter of intellectual maturity and honesty and the ability to see the big picture. That is what we got.

[_Robert_Participant]

[PopeBeanieModerator]

OMG, I’m in love with someone named Tracie now!

Let’s see… is she married to Sam…

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

In North Carolina I met two glamorous air hostesses called Sydney and Graham.  In the UK those are boys’ names …

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

A toast to you Simon! (from a website I have a personal involvement in)

[Author]

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