Sunday School

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Unseen wrote:

Her point, since you missed it, is that there are no gold standard statistics and yet these 1 in 4 or 1 in 6 “statistics” are bandied about as if they are true.

It’s hard to be sure of the exact statistics like you say.  The college statistics put it at 10% – 29%.  So there’s a wide range.  But which ever way you look at it, it’s very common, and much more common for women than for men.

[DavisModerator]

The effort being made to Down play the prevalence of rape and sexual assault is sickening. This enables rape culture. You should be horrified by these statistics, not trying to fight them. Stop enabling rape culture.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Davis wrote:

Stop enabling rape culture.

Yes, it’s patriarchal and misogynistic.

[_Robert_Participant]

So exactly how are we “enabling rape culture” (besides pro-Islamic liberals who conveniently look the other way when millions of enslaved females are treated like dogshit in every Muslim country)?

I guess schools and colleges are encouraging gangs of raping men and football teams too run around and rape or something? I guess the police refuse to investigate cases? Are fathers and mothers encouraging young boys to rape in Western culture. Are sex workers, dancers, and porn actress offered to customers against their will?

Let’s not call out asshole individuals for their crimes and separate them from females. No, it’s a “cultural” fault. No individual is ever responsible. Especially not females who hyper-sexualize themselves on social media. Let’s encourage that. The result of this warped social media “feminism culture” is that half the females have attached their self-worth to their physical assets. Let’s just call it porn culture, shall we?.

And let’s bypass due process and just throw anyone accused of rape in jail. That’s what you want?

How Fucking brilliant.

[jakelafortParticipant]

Hey Reg how about an illuminating article in Sunday School about rape culture? It is new on me so i withold judgment on whether the left is onto something valid or it is more left BS like Islamophobia.

I can say with some confidence that diminishing power of religions is a good way to reduce rape/molestation. And it follows that honoring Islamophobia enables rape/molestation. Those great power dynamics of high and low social orders allow old men to rape little girls as in Islamic culture. Obviously we have century after century of priests doing their nasty and families not reporting priests to authorities for fear of the cloth and their own reputation. I have read orthodox Jews have a higher incidence of rape as well. In India among Hindus ya read a lot about gang rapes. And obviously Muslim immigrants in Europe are raping the hell out of pure white anglo saxon women. Their beliefs and customs are the cause.

So if you want a better civilization with fewer rapes/molestation you need equality and the defenestration of social constructs and social order with indefensible hierarchies. As long as religion is puissant that aint gonna happen.

Never took stock from Rape of a Lock.

[UnseenParticipant]

Simon Paynton wrote:

But which ever way you look at it, it’s very common, and much more common for women than for men.

Wrong again: “Because of the high prison population in the United States the country has become probably the first and only in the world where rape of men is more common than of women.” (source)

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

jakelafort wrote:

Hey Reg how about an illuminating article in Sunday School about rape culture? It is new on me so i withold judgment on whether the left is onto something valid or it is more left BS like Islamophobia.

As I understand it, rape culture is the culture of it being OK to violate women’s rights sexually.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

Never took stock from Rape of a Lock.

There is an old tradition in Ireland of never accepting a lock of hair from your lover (even if she is called Arabella).

 

I have long contended that religion is the source of most of the sexual dysfunction in the world. None of them hold that women should be treated the same way as men. The Old Testament offers a degrading and immoral treatment of women under its terrible “heaven-made” laws. Deuteronomy 22-24 is a disgrace to all of humanity and the vulgarity of its verses will not be writ on the pages of an atheist website.

Religions instill these warped concepts about women into young men, generation after generation. All religions have a perverted obsession with sex and this was compounded by their refusal to allow teaching anything about it. And these rules were being taught by men who have taken vows of enforced celibacy, which to me is a form of sexual perversion because it is unnatural.

From a book written about 100 years ago:

The Council of Cologne, in 1307, tried in vain to give nuns a chance to live virtuous lives; to protect them from the hands of drunken priests and monks. The Bishop of Utrecht in 1347 issued an order prohibiting the admittance of men to nunneries. In Spain, conditions became so intolerable that the communities forced their priests to select concubines so that the wives and daughters would be safe from the ravages of the clergy. The Church was chiefly responsible for the terrible persecutions inflicted on women on the ground of witchcraft and this must be taken into calculation when one considers what woman owes to religion. The Reformation reduced woman to the position of a mere breeder of children. During the sway of Puritanism woman was a poor, benighted being, a human toad under the harrow of a pious imbecility.

The pioneers in the Modern Woman Movement in this country were, of course, Mrs. Stanton, Mrs. Gage, and Miss Susan B. Anthony. In their “History of Woman Suffrage” they comment on the vicious opposition which the early workers encountered in New York. “Throughout this protracted and disgraceful assault on American womanhood the clergy baptized every new insult and act of injustice in the name of the Christian religion, and uniformly asked God’s blessing on proceedings that would have put to shame an assembly of Hottentots.”

And while the clergy either remained silent or heaped abuse on this early movement, such freethinkers as Robert Owen, Jeremy Bentham, George Jacob Holyoake, and John Stuart Mill in England entered the fray wholeheartedly in behalf of the emancipation of woman. In France it was Michelet and George Sand that came to their aid. In Germany it was Max Sterner, Büchner, Marx, Engels, and Liebknecht. In Scandinavia it was Ibsen and Björnson.

The battle was begun by freethinkers in defiance of the clergy and it was only when the inevitable conquest of this movement was manifest that any considerable number of clergy came to the aid of this progressive movement. The righting of the wrongs imposed on womankind therefore had been started not only without the aid of the churches but in face of their determined opposition. It was not the clergy that discovered the injustice that had been done to women throughout the centuries, and when it was finally pointed out to them by sceptics, it was the rare ecclesiastic that could see it so and attempt to right the wrong.

R. H. Bell, in tracing this struggle of woman in her publication, “Woman from Bondage to Freedom,” has this pertinent remark to make. “If there are any personal rights in this world over which Church and State should have no control, it is the sexual right of a woman to say, ‘Yes’ or ‘No.’ These and similar rights are so deeply imbedded in natural morality that no clear-headed, clean-hearted person would wish to controvert them…. Enforced motherhood, through marriage or otherwise, is a mixed form of slavery, voluntary motherhood is the glory of a free soul.”

In the age-long struggle for freedom, woman’s most rigorous antagonist has always been the Church.

Mary says YES

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Unseen wrote:

Simon Paynton wrote: But which ever way you look at it, it’s very common, and much more common for women than for men.

Outside prison.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

Reg the Fronkey Farmer wrote:

“Throughout this protracted and disgraceful assault on American womanhood the clergy baptized every new insult and act of injustice in the name of the Christian religion, and uniformly asked God’s blessing on proceedings that would have put to shame an assembly of Hottentots.”

I think that the Church provides power structures that patriarchy can take advantage of (by excluding women from them, and providing further means for repression, for example…); and the Church was put together by men for men anyway.

[Simon PayntonParticipant]

_Robert_ wrote:

Let’s not call out asshole individuals for their crimes and separate them from females. No, it’s a “cultural” fault. No individual is ever responsible.

You’re right, it’s a good question, what’s the link between culture (when every culture condemns rape) and behaviour?  Rape used to be a crime of theft against the man, in Western culture, according to Steven Pinker.  Is rape an act of humiliation, or of gross entitlement, or both?

[UnseenParticipant]

Simon Paynton wrote:

Unseen wrote:

Simon Paynton wrote: But which ever way you look at it, it’s very common, and much more common for women than for men.

Outside prison.

A little victim blaming going on there? Rape is rape, after all.

• This reply was modified 10 months, 2 weeks ago by  Unseen.

[UnseenParticipant]

@ Simon

If I were to take the position that “There is no such thing as patriarchy in a democracy” as long as women are free to participate in the process, what could you offer as proof I’m wrong?

Maybe societies simply naturally settle into patriarchy, if matriarchy worked on a large scale, there would be working examples, wouldn’t there?

Have you ever considered that there’s nothing even vaguely unnatural about societies becoming patriarchic? (Not that that justifies rape or rape culture. Those can be treated as separate issues.)

Here are the words of the lesbian scholar* Camille Paglia:

Not a shred of evidence supports the existence of matriarchy anywhere in the world at any time… The matriarchy hypothesis, revived by American feminism, continues to flourish outside the university.

Women’s studies is a comfy, chummy morass of unchallenged groupthink . It is, with rare exception, totally unscholarly. Academic feminists have silenced men and dissenting women.

* Paglia’s masterwork, Sexual Personae, is one of the top studies of classic/classical literature and art of the 20th Century.

The Amazon book blurb reads: The fiery, provocative, and unparalleled work of feminist art criticism that launched the exceptional career of one of our most important public intellectuals—”a remarkable book, at once outrageous and compelling, fanatical and brilliant…. One must be awed by [Paglia’s] vast energy, erudition and wit” (The Washington Post).

[jakelafortParticipant]

From Nancy…Just say no.

From Catholics…Mary says yes

So i suppose that would be characterized as fostering rape culture.

The Catholic Church ought to be taxed out of existence for crimes against humanity. That it still has so much influence is amazing. If the Church be corrupt in whom the masses trust no wonder that a common man rust. You won’t get that reference, Reg.

[Reg the Fronkey FarmerModerator]

@jakelafort – It’s still before 8 AM here so have I a choice or reason to ever think all that glitters is gold?

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